My post viva/verbal review PhD revisions are coming along nicely. I tackle the most difficult and complex revisions first and success provides me with confidence. I worked on the graphs with the help of a friend and now am working on Kant. Please see my thekingpin68 blog.
I am not claiming any expertise in population growth or the subject of population growth in Europe.
I am open to suggestions and differing opinions. I have British citizenship and a United Kingdom and European Union passport and therefore have personal interest as well.
Although I have come across Islam in my academic world religions research and blogging, I am not an expert on the religion and Islamic culture. Although I reason the information provided demonstrates the danger of radical Islamists running Western countries, I cannot guarantee that in every case a Muslim majority would greatly curb the rights of non-Muslims that wish to be non-religious, Christian or other in worldview and practice.
Please note, my personal interaction with Muslims has been positive. I have no personal agenda. I have met moral and kind Muslims. Most Muslims contribute to society.
Also, I in no way support a Christian or theistic theocracy within this present realm. I would like to see the Christian Church have moral influence on Western society and secular governments that do not adopt one particular state religion.
Why?
Because I do not want a state-church to exist that would seek to treat all that do not follow the state religion as heretical and treasonous.
Guess who would likely be on the outside looking in.
I do however believe that Christ and God will one day establish a Kingdom (Revelation 21-22).
Portions quoted from:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1609
http://www.khouse.org/enews_article/2004/817/
'Islam is quickly becoming a significant part of the cultural and political landscape of Europe. There are between 9 and 15 million Muslims living throughout Europe today, and Islam has become the largest religious minority. Considering current population trends and the need for immigrant labor it is likely that the number of Muslims in Europe will continue to grow exponentially. Bernard Lewis, a former history professor at Princeton and the respected author of more than a dozen books on the Middle East, is quoted as saying that "Europe will be Islamic by the end of the century."
Europe's Muslim population is not evenly distributed. It is concentrated primarily in six countries. France has a Muslim population of approximately 5 million, the largest in all of Europe. Germany has about 2 million, followed by the United Kingdom with 1.5 million, the Netherlands with 500,000, Belgium with 300,000, and Austria with 200,000. The heavy concentration of Muslims in these countries is not surprising, because during the last three decades they have experienced massive labor migrations. Large Muslim populations also exist in Italy and Spain, as well as several Scandinavian countries such as Sweden, Denmark, and Norway...
The EU may not become the Islamic Republic of Europe any time soon, but the excessive influx of Muslim immigrants and refugees into the EU is a serious issue. Opening the doors of Europe to Turkey and the Muslim world also means opening the door to radical Islamic fundamentalists. Many of whom have already fled to Europe (our readers may recall that the terrorist cell authorities suspect planned the September 11 attacks was based in Hamburg, Germany). To ignore such warnings or to label such commentators as alarmists requires disregarding much of what history has taught us about the relationship between Islam and the western world.'
http://www.blufftontoday.com/node/10269
The German author Henryk M. Broder recently told the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now. Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin, Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said melancholically: “We are watching the world of yesterday.”Europe is turning Muslim...
As Tom Bethell wrote in this month’s American Spectator: “Just at the most basic level of demography the secular-humanist option is not working.” But there is more to it than the fact that non-religious people tend not to have as many children as religious people, because many of them prefer to “enjoy” freedom rather than renounce it for the sake of children. Secularists, it seems to me, are also less keen on fighting. Since they do not believe in an afterlife, this life is the only thing they have to lose. Hence they will rather accept submission than fight...'
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1705909/posts
'From the desk of Paul Belien on Wed, 2006-09-20 23:11 Dr Koenraad Elst, one of Belgium’s best orientalists and an occasional contributor to this website (if I had time I would translate more of his Dutch-language contributions into English), told me last week that he thinks “Islam is in decline, despite its impressive demographic and military surge” – which according to Dr Elst is merely a “last upheaval.”
He acknowledges, however, that this decline can take some time (at least in terms of the individual human life span) and that it is possible that Islam will succeed in becoming the majority religion in Europe before collapsing...
Perhaps, as Dr Elst fears, Islam in its stage of decline might, by the mid-21st century, succeed in conquering Europe and becoming the old continent’s dominant religion. In this knowledge one slogan of last Sunday’s Islamic hatemongerers in London may be more than just hate speech: “Islam will conquer Rome” may be prophetic. Here, however, we ourselves are to blame, because Islamists will not find it difficult to conquer Europe. Christianity in Western Europe has virtually ceased to exist. The spirit of secular relativism that originated from the French Enlightenment has persuaded Europe (including Europe’s churches) to commit a protracted, two centuries long suicide, the symptoms of which were visible in Communism, National-Socialism and moral relativism in general.
Man is a religious being and needs religious faith. If European Christianity had still been healthy today it would have proselytized, it would have reached out with missionary zeal to the millions of Muslims who migrated to Western Europe since the 1970s, it would have offered them Christ. Instead, it’s churches became bastions of religious relativism. Europe offered the newcomers only cultural decadence, from which decent people want to shield their children, and spiritual emptiness, which one can only despise.
The Europeans, who lost the missionary zeal to reach out to the immigrants, also lacked the zeal to pass on their own civilization to their offspring. Worse still, they lacked the zeal to have offspring. Since demographics is the mother of all politics, it is, barring a miracle, certain that Islam will become the old continent’s dominant religion.
Unless Europe rediscovers its will to survive – and it may already be too late (though as a Christian I do not exclude miracles) – soon furious Islamists may be holding sway over Europe in much the same way as the Taliban did over Afghanistan, removing all visible remnants of pre-Islamic culture. The Cathedrals of Europe may share the fate of the Buddhas of Bamiyan. Christian works of art may be destroyed. Surely, a faith that forbids the depiction of human figures will be offended by the Christian art of medieval Europe and the nudes of the Renaissance. Perhaps it is wise to seriously consider salvaging as many European cultural treasures as one already can, before it is too late, and bringing them to safety elsewhere.'
End of quotations.
My Aunt was nice enough to send me the You Tube clip and this was my reply (edited slightly.
That is very interesting. I have heard similar on Albert Mohler's website. It is scary but I reason Western society is heading for God;s judgment.
Problems
There are so few Christians and it is hard for many, such as myself to find a suitable partner. Therefore no families, sadly for many of us.
There are many that predict the evangelical church will collapse over the next few decades. A major possible reason is a lack of solid Biblical and theological training to separate it from secular thinking.
I consider myself only secondarily evangelical. I reason Reformed churches that have not sold out are more Biblical and theologically sound.
Evangelical churches often want to dummy things down and talk about how people can be happy, but this should not be done at the expense of teaching persons basic Biblical theology and how it differs from secular thought, and Islam, for example.
The radical liberal church basically is very similar to the world. Too many are not interested in letting the Bible in context (not always necessarily plain literal from an English reading, but it is sometimes) speak for itself. Too many want to make the Bible and God modern. He is not, he is the Alpha and Omega, eternal. He does not change.
Secular society supports too many abortions and abortion on demand. There is a break down of the concept of marriage and family as very important for many in society.
I think Islam is a false religion as it denies the deity of Christ, the Trinity and the atoning and resurrection of Christ. This is stated without anything personal against Muslims.
I hope and pray that through my blogs and future teaching I can help the gospel cause.
Lorrez Le Bocage Preau Saint Anne, France (photo from trekearth.com)
Notre Dame Cathedral, Paris, France (photo from trekearth.com)
EdH Frviere, Lyon, France (photo from trekearth.com)
A man with his cat and kittens. I am not certain on whether or not some of them are adoptable. They are rather larger than the cat I used to have but perhaps that is due to steroids.
Chance of Canada getting another team outside of beating Bettman and the NHL owners in court.
Me at practice...I wish.
nwr mar y sol fest wav edit 3.mp3
Just don't know how to contribute to your post. Have not thought about this previously and find it quite astonishing.
ReplyDeleteThanks, very much.
ReplyDeletePragmatically, even for those readers that are not Christian or religious there should be the understanding that the Western devaluation of the family has in part led to this problem. Now, again, I am single and so I am in a sense part of the problem, but I know it is not and has never been my goal or intention
to stay single. I have been a student and that combined with being a theological Christian has made it difficult to find dates. But, in the West if we would have kept up the birth rate and perhaps been more cautious concerning immigration, we, especially in Europe, would not be facing this apparent and possible cultural catastrophe. Yes I know that is very controversial as we do not want to be racist, but is it wrong to protect a culture from radical Islamists? I think not.
As much as I disagree with aspects of modern secular thinking, it shares with historical Biblical Christianity the understanding that religion should not be forced on individuals and a society. I know the certain radical Islamists reason their brand of Islam should be forced on opponents, or those opponents should face exile or death.
If I was part of the EU leadership now, pragmatically, even putting aside religious and moral considerations, for the sake of survival I would end Muslim immigration and abortion on demand. Again, putting my secular hat on here, I think that would be the reasonable course of action, even for the European atheist that wants to maintain his or her culture.
Phew...likewise, Russ, I don't even know where to start replying—seriously, I could write pages and pages on my thoughts on this. I've thought about the European situation for quite some time (and blogged about it previously—see here and here), and also done some reading about it. It's hard to know what to think.
ReplyDeleteI do want to dialogue about this, although I just can't afford the time right now due to pressing deadlines as the semester wraps up. But I will discuss it with you later on, once I've got some more free time, either here or via email.
Cheers, Jake.
ReplyDeleteI remember I read the second post. I realize I am not approaching this as an expert or from an original perspective, but like you, I am quite concerned about this situation. I also do not see any kind of solution at present, at least one that the EU would consider.
'I do want to dialogue about this, although I just can't afford the time right now due to pressing deadlines as the semester wraps up. But I will discuss it with you later on, once I've got some more free time, either here or via email.'
Jake, no problem, this will be up on the main page for May (then in archives) and please take your time. We can comment on this later. To be frank, right now I am working on Van Til and Kant and will soon have soup and head to a Friday night fire.
God bless with all the work, Jake.
Russ:)
Hello Russ,
ReplyDeleteI concur with you this is disturbing and i really don't see a solution. I don't mean to sound doomsdayer but i believe it is to late for us to do much of anything. Arms are opened to immigration and the people don't really seem to have a say in the matter. But I do know that God has a plan and a perfect time set aside that He will intervene, It is never to late for Him to intervene :)
Thanks, Tamela.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the comments in what has been a long day for me with shopping at Costco, driving in the sun, and then coming home to do more PhD revisions. I was intent on doing them and was up to 4 am working on them earlier. That is normal for me with my sleep apnea.
My concern is not the typical Muslim, but with a Muslim majority there is a political danger of extremism to exist. Can it really be stated that in most Muslim dominated countries there is significant freedom of religion and expression? I doubt it.
Well, I need to head out. Happy Weekend, Tamela.
Russ,
ReplyDeleteThough your article talks about Europe, since I've only lived in the U.S., my comments will be from an American perspective and talk mostly about America, since that's what I'm more familiar with. The following is compiled from research using a number of websites.
-Muslims believe abortion is a crime.
-Muslim immigrants have more children than other Europeans. Some contributors may be the same as in the U.S.: more women in the workforce today, the expense of raising a child, the chosen freedom from the obligation/responsibility of raising a child (made possible via contraceptives and abortion).
-There are 11 million people living with an unmarried partner in the United States, including both same-sex and different-sex couples (2000 Census). Between 1960 and 2000, the number of unmarried cohabiting couples in the U.S. increased one thousand percent (2000 Census). 43% of different-sex unmarried partner households includes children, compared to 46% of married couple households (2003 Census report). 74% of Americans define a family as "a group of people who love and care about each other" regardless of blood relation or marital status (Mellman & Lazarus, Mass. Mutual, 1989, national survey of 1200 adults).
-Gay couples also contribute to this population issue, since they cannot bear children. For example, in the U.S., there are 9.7 million people living with a different-sex unmarried partner.
-Apparently, the theory of global warming is also to blame. "Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35. "Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population." On The Christian Science Monitor "Bright Green Blog," in an article entitled "Are We Making Too Many Americans?" it says, "Julia Whitty points out that each one of those newborns arrives with a massive carbon price tag." They conclude that "each child adds about 9,441 metric tons of CO2 to the “carbon legacy” of the average US female, or 5.7 times her lifetime emissions."
-Walid Shoebat, Former PLO Palestinian Terrorist who accepted Christ, had an Islamic education from Kindergarten through High School. He was involved in terror cells in the U.S., to prepare the way for a future jihad in America. He says real terrorism has nothing to do with land, nothing to do with "Palestine" or "Iraq." He writes, "It is a fallacy that 'jihad' represents an 'inner struggle'. [There are] over one hundred quotes by Muhammad [in the Qur'an] referring to jihad by the sword, by killing, by taking no prisoners, by forced conversion, or by enslavement - [and] only one quote referring to an internal struggle ..." “What the West does not understand about Islam,” Shoebat said on Tovia Singer’s radio broadcast, “is that Jihad has stages. If Muslims have the upper hand then Jihad is waged by force. If Muslim’s don’t have the upper hand then Jihad is waged through financial and political means. Since Muslims do not have the upper hand in America or Europe, they talk about peace while supporting Hamas and Hezballah. The whole idea of Islam being a peaceful religion emanates from that silent stage of Jihad."
-There are Muslims who want to replace American law with their version: Shari'a - Islamic law. One Muslim (in America) on one video I watched said, "We want to see Shari'a here. And it will be." On a Fox News video, the President for the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, a devout Muslim, said that there are "many fronts to this war." He said "all we do is focus on the violence and the terror front, but there's another front, which is the ideological front." He said that "in the early 90's, the FBI uncovered a document which demonstrated the Muslim brotherhood is working through multiple forms of organizations to culturally bring forth, as we see in England now, the Shari'a courts. We see various enclaves of trying to permeate the ideology of political Islam that is a fuel, ultimately, for one of the means, which is terror. But other peaceful means include threatening our society, freedom and liberty, from within." "I think that is certainly one of the fronts of this conflict that we need to pay attention to."
-Polls show that fewer Americans today believe that terrorism is a threat than at any time since before 9/11; several of the larger blogs that used to care about this issue have for various reasons lost interest; and the jihad threat is nowhere discussed fully and adequately in the mainstream.
On the bright side:
ReplyDelete"...hundreds of Muslims across Israel and the Palestinian areas have come to Christ in the past year or so."
"I've been working among these people for thirty years, and I promise you I've never seen anything like this," marvels one Southern Baptist worker.
(June 2002 issue of SBC Life)Muslims coming to Christ in the 1000s (video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xS9qcYhdls
Muslims Coming to Christ! (video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJpYteISe0
MUSLIMS COMING TO CHRIST
http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/Muslims%20coming%20to%20Christ.htm
More Than Dreams: Muslims Coming to Christ Through Dreams and Visions
http://www.lausanneworldpulse.com/worldreports/595/01-2007
The Barnyard: Muslims Coming to Christ
http://goatsbarnyard.blogspot.com/2008/03/muslims-coming-to-christ.html
"In Sudan, as many as five million Muslims have accepted Christ since the early 1990s,
despite horrific persecution of Christians by the Sudanese government."
"In Iraq, “More than 5,000 Muslim converts to Christianity have been identified
since the end of major combat operations,” says Islam Watch."
Hope can come via Muslims coming to Christ, and by children born into Muslim families not adhering to radical forms of the faith, and very importantly by Western Muslims refusing to support political movements with radical Muslim ideology.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jeff.
Hi Russ,
ReplyDeleteI've been blogging on these multiple, interdependent threats to Western Civilization since the beginning of my blog. In fact, I began blogging at the time of the October/November 2005 riots in Paris.
As a professor teaching Western Civilization for over 15 years, the permanent threat posed by Islam to the Judeo-Christian, Greco-Roman, and Germanic synthesis we call Western Civ has always figured largely in my mind. Materialistic atheists and soft-minded "Christian" "humanitarianists" are actually natural allies with the immanentist, Arian heretical Moslems. They all reject the concept of a loving God, that created us to know, love and serve Him in this world and to by happy with Him in the next. These groups are more than just fellow travelers (not just "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" routine). They are largely agreed on the practical needs of action in the world today: uniformity of thought. The real irony is that relativistic hedonists and sexual liberationists ALSO support these three sisters of the world-god because of the common foe perceived in Christian culture and democratic republicanism.
Pat Buchanan's book, "The Death of the West" has all the statistics on demographics that one needs. Europe's population will be halved in 50 years--and unlike the Black Death--the remaining half will be OLD, breaking the social security bank in those countries.
Actually, I believe the jihad will come WAY before that time, as Islam is emboldened by the weakness of the "spirit of Munich" as Solzhenitsyn called it in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech. See also his Harvard Commencement speech on the problems the West has in mounting any kind of resistance at this point.
For Americans who have not much experience of European conditions (I have spent over a decade between France, Germany and Italy) I recommend "Menace in Europe" by Claire Berlinski as an introduction. Some of our kids know more about European decadence than we do, because they are in tune with the music garbage coming out of there.
Unfortunately as an historian I am not very hopeful for things to turn around. That's not likely.
However, as I point out to my students, America is, if anything, NOT at the end of the Roman Empire historically speaking. No, we are at the end of the Roman REPUBLIC. The Empire is actually AHEAD of us, not behind. God help us all when the technological power of the modern West and warrior mentality of the Roman and Germanic past gets unchained from its Christian harness...
There is hope in a revival of faith, what recent Popes have called the "New Evangelization" that is necessary. Will it be enough? Will the Moslems convert en masse? No one can tell yet. Certainly ecumenical action is needed more than ever. But I have no doubt that things will have to get much, much, much worse before they get better, for our great-great-grandchildren maybe.
When the Empire did fall, it fell in the West, and it survived for another 1000 years in the East (that would be us in North America). History doesn't repeat itself exactly. Human nature is the same, but technology has radically altered the destructive power of that nature. It would not be beyond possibility that we will be thrown into a new Dark Age for some considerable time--maybe centuries. As I tell my apocalyptically-minded friends: each one of us might face our "apocalypse" at any given moment. The point is to be ready to face God at any time. If some of us survive, if God's plan has more in store for us or for humanity as a whole, what difference should that make to us. We could take a lesson from the Moslems on this one tiny score, let's not forget that it is for God's will, not ours, that we chiefly pray to be done.
In the meantime, keep faith, hope and love alive!
D. Ox
-Gay couples also contribute to this population issue, since they cannot bear children. For example, in the U.S., there are 9.7 million people living with a different-sex unmarried partner.
ReplyDeleteOops, it seems that I messed up on that one. Gay couples would not be different-sex partners. I copied and pasted the wrong sentence here.
'But I have no doubt that things will have to get much, much, much worse before they get better, for our great-great-grandchildren maybe.
ReplyDeleteIt would not be beyond possibility that we will be thrown into a new Dark Age for some considerable time--maybe centuries.'
Mr. Ox, thanks for the perspective as a history professor.
'In the meantime, keep faith, hope and love alive!'
Yes, in Christ there is hope for us individually (Ephesians 1-2) and collectively (Revelation 21-22).
Russ:)
Correction noted, Jeff.
ReplyDeleteObama is giving up our freedom here in the States. Their even trying to pass laws that says Pastors of Churchs can be arrested if they openly claim homosexuality is a Sin.
ReplyDeleteOur Pastor said, if that comes to pass He will have a jail ministry. I guess I will go with him, I will not stand silent over the crap thats coming, Things are about to get sever all over the world, and really bad for the US, Since Obama took over. Rick b
'Their even trying to pass laws that says Pastors of Churches can be arrested if they openly claim homosexuality is a Sin.'
ReplyDeleteThe Christian Church and other groups must be allowed to voice the historical and rational view that homosexuality is sin. This is not in itself hatred of homosexuals (nor should it be), some of which are in our churches in a state of struggle and repentance, as we all in Christ struggle and repent of sin.
To prevent Christians and others from criticizing homosexuality is to severely limit freedom of religion and this is a dangerous road for everyone.
Cheers, Rick.
The thing here in the US is, Many people who want nothing to do with "Religion" I myself hate Religion, But I call it religion for the purpose of everyone else.
ReplyDeleteReligion is Man working his/her way to God, IE works. Christianity is a relationship with the living God, Not religion. Anyway, as I was saying, Many people here keep crying Separation of Church and state.
And when they say that, they basically mean they want and person of faith to keep quite and not say anything. Yet these same people while crying, Separation of Church and state, they want to enter the Church and tell them how to run the Church, Like allowing Gays to marry, or we cannot say the word Sin, or what ever.
What a bunch of losers and hypocrites. Rick b
'The thing here in the US is, Many people who want nothing to do with "Religion" I myself hate Religion, But I call it religion for the purpose of everyone else.'
ReplyDeleteAs you and I have discussed before, and I have discussed with Jake as well recently on his blog, the term religion is reasonable academically within a Christian context.
Philosopher Blackburn in his philosophy text notes that the philosophy of religion is an attempt to the understand the concept of religious thoughts such as existence, necessity, fate, creation, sin, justice, mercy and redemption.
Certainly, Christianity deals with these issues and therefore in that sense can be academically considered a religion.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
Many extreme/radical liberals do not want religion, and some do. If they do, they want it based in their image and late twentieth century and present twenty-first century thought. This reminds me of Romans 1 as they simply have a false human made religion that at times maintains the shell and/or some influences of Biblical Christianity, but denies its gospel core.
The comments are much appreciated Rick.
Very informative article on population stats. Thank you. Many European and North American countries rely seemingly heavily on immigration. Its a shame that population growth could not come from a country's own citizens.
ReplyDelete-Gene Poole-
Mr. Gene Poole, thanks very much.
ReplyDeleteThe break down of the family unit and the devaluation of it within many segments of Western society is very troubling.
"Also, I in no way support a Christian or theistic theocracy within this present realm. I would like to see the Christian Church have moral influence on Western society and secular governments that do not adopt one particular state religion."I wholeheartedly agree with this. We aren't called to implement a "Christian nation" (whatever that is) but to teach/preach the Gospel making disciples of Christ (which is, of course, the work of the Spirit). The history of the Roman Catholic Church shows us what the manifestation of a so-called "Christian nation" looks like--and it aint pretty! I for one want no part of a Sacral Nation--"Christian" or otherwise.
ReplyDeleteOf course, as your article suggests, Islam is making inroads in Europe such that this can be a concern. With you, I have no problem with individual (non-radical) Muslims, just as I have no problem with individual Buddists, Roman Catholics, Athiests, or even Satanists (properly understood). The problem occurs when one of these groups (or others, including "Christian") attempt to Sacralize a nation. Constatine did this and Biblical Christianity was largely lost (except for the "remnant") only to be replaced by another form of evil tyranny in the Roman Church/State (until the Reformation). State "religion" will always inevitably become a tryanny of evil people doing everything in the name of "god".
Okay, my rant's over. Thanks for getting my blood boiling so early this morning! :-)
No really...thanks. I needed to wake up! :-)
GGM
'Of course, as your article suggests, Islam is making inroads in Europe such that this can be a concern. With you, I have no problem with individual (non-radical) Muslims, just as I have no problem with individual Buddists, Roman Catholics, Athiests, or even Satanists (properly understood). The problem occurs when one of these groups (or others, including "Christian") attempt to Sacralize a nation.'
ReplyDeleteYes, we should desire a West as Christians where we still have the freedom that allows various reasonable interpretations of religious or non-religious worldviews, including of course Biblical Christian.
Cheers.
Wow, I think I finally discovered something good about secularism: it will fight Islam just as strongly as (if not more than) it has Christianity. You'll see. This world is not only turning its back on the God of the Christians, but on all other immaterial gods, too. If the Muslims try to be too influential in Europe (or anywhere else in the West), there will be such a backlash.
ReplyDeleteThere is the possibility that as the one commentator notes in my post, Islam is decreasing in influence. Secularism may change most young Muslims into basically secular Europeans with Muslim backgrounds.
ReplyDeleteTime will tell if there will be enough of these people to maintain Europe as primarily secular.
Thanks, Greg.
That reminds me of a joke circulating around the time of the invasion of Afghanistan on an easy plan for victory: parachute in a bunch of French philosophers.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Mr. Ox.:)
ReplyDeleteA Facebook reply to Jason.
ReplyDeleteHey Jason:)
From the information online and t.v. it seems to me S. Ontario, as in TO, Hamilton or even S.W. Ontario could support a team. The Leafs would remain the number one team in popularity and would still be very profitable.
Winnipeg perhaps could support a club, but their arena is slightly undersized and would they receive enough corporate support to be a Stanley Cup competitive team?
Quebec does not have a newer arena and I begrudgingly admit that the Nords have been more profitable in your town with the Avs.
However, being that Winnipeg and Quebec were and are such good hockey towns with traditions of producing many professional players I would have suspended the franchises and never moved them and given Denver an expansion team. It was a slap in the face to Canada. I know this is a bit weird for some Americans to understand, but Europeans could understand this as if for example, West Ham were moved out a London to New York to play in a new 80, 000 stadium. There are cultural ties broken in areas where the sport is very popular and a team moves.
As far as the argument going around that if Coyotes move to Ontario it will open up possibility of other teams moving into markets where there is a team, I am not concerned. It is overblown. There was a suggestion that the Leafs could move to Regina...hypothetically...look the Leafs are not bankrupt like the Coyotes and TO is a better market than Regina because of population.
If another team can make it in Montreal, excellent, the Canadiens will still be the number one team in popularity. It will be no easy task for someone to build a 500 million dollar arena and then buy a team and build it into a winner, even if they did not have to pay the Habs territorial rights. The same with Detroit, if another team can move in there and make money, excellent, the Wings will still be the number one team in the area.
Territorial rights to me are very 'iffy'!
I do not like teams moving but a business should have the right to move out of an unprofitable market and the league should attempt to cut costs which they did not do well enough until Hartford, Quebec and Winnipeg left.
Minimally, a team should make a profit and I am not against revenue sharing. It is good to have smaller markets for the sake of a league not just dominated by larger areas.
In Canada there is generally not public funding for stadiums to the level there is in the US and so it is more difficult to build a modern building. Therefore, the Expos largely moved out of Montreal because of a lack of a new building as did the Nords in Que.
I favour private funding, however.
In the New Testament, I do not see any of the Apostles getting involved in politics. What I DO see is them taking the gospel around the known world.
ReplyDeleteToday, at least in the U.S., short-terms missions trips are done by a few; street preaching and handing out tracts are done by a few; things like prison ministry are done by a few; and a very rare and scarce few become full-time missionaries. But most Christians in the West (or at least in the U.S.) do not seem to put much importance on evangelism. They say "That's not my gift" or "I don't feel comfortable doing that." They leave the Great Commission up to foreign missionaries. Many seem to put down street evangelism, door-to-door evangelism, handing out tracts, etc., claiming they are offensive or don't work. Friendship evangelism is usually considered OK, and probably a fair number of Christians practice that to some extent. I am also thankful for Internet evangelism (though unfortunately, 'Christian' sites are usually most often visited by Christians, which limits their evangelistic effectiveness). But, all-in-all, I think that the evangelism we see modeled in the New Testament is largely being ignored by most Christians in the West today.
Another problem I see, at least in the U.S., is a lack of unity among Christians. Jesus prayed that we all would be one, but this is not the case, other than the fact that we Christians are the Bride of Christ and are all part of the Invisible Church. But as far as local churches, we are very much split, even sometimes to the point of prejudice and dislike, by skin color, denomination and doctrine. Black churches are separate from white churches. Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal, non-denominational, Charismatic, Lutheran, etc. churches all are separated from one another. When I lived in Miami, I remember attending one church that had many Hispanics, blacks, etc. in it, but that was at least partially because it was in a big-city, mixed-culture environment. There are para-church organizations such as Campus Crusade for Christ, PromiseKeepers, BSF International, Via de Cristo, etc., that bring all the different denominations together, and that is great. But our local churches are still very much divided as far as the Body of Christ is concerned.
In this time when Islam is raising a threatening head; when Barack Hussein Obama, apparently controlled by the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group, are seemingly working toward a one-world government; and many other signs are pointing toward what may be the Last Days; it seems to me that this lack of evangelism in the West, plus the lack of unity among the Body of Christ, are areas of great weakness, and are things that I think are greatly needed in such a time as this.
'In the New Testament, I do not see any of the Apostles getting involved in politics. What I DO see is them taking the gospel around the known world.'
ReplyDeleteTrue, Jeff.
Cheers.
My comments on the site below.
Coyote watch
'If the CAD took a dive again after Balsillie won, you'd not only see those teams suffering, but even more teams moving. Could teams like Edmonton and Ottawa survive if that happened? '
Yes, they likely could. They need to make a profit, not go bankrupt and have a salary cap and revenue sharing. This was not present when the three WHA teams moved. The League deserves some credit for this taking place.
Minimally, a team should make a profit and I am not against revenue sharing. It is good to have smaller markets for the sake of a league not just dominated by larger areas.
Winnipeg perhaps could support a club, but their arena is slightly undersized and would they receive enough corporate support to be a Stanley Cup competitive team?
Quebec does not have a newer arena and I begrudgingly admit that the Nords have been more profitable in Denver with the Avs.
However, being that Winnipeg and Quebec were and are such good hockey towns with traditions of producing many professional players I would have suspended the franchises and never moved them and given Denver an expansion team. It was a slap in the face to Canada. I know this is a bit weird for some Americans to understand, but Europeans could understand this as if for example, West Ham were moved out a London to New York to play in a new 80, 000 stadium. There are cultural ties broken in areas where the sport is very popular and a team moves.
As far as the argument going around that if Coyotes move to Ontario it will open up possibility of other teams moving into markets where there is a team, I am not concerned. It is overblown. There was a suggestion that the Leafs could move to Regina...hypothetically...look the Leafs are not bankrupt like the Coyotes and TO is a better market than Regina because of population.
If another team can make it in Montreal, excellent, the Canadiens will still be the number one team in popularity. It will be no easy task for someone to build a 500 million dollar arena and then buy a team and build it into a winner, even if they did not have to pay the Habs territorial rights. The same with Detroit, if another team can move in there and make money, excellent, the Wings will still be the number one team in the area.
Territorial rights to me are very 'iffy'!
I do not like teams moving but a business should have the right to move out of an unprofitable market and the league should attempt to cut costs which they did not do well enough until Hartford, Quebec and Winnipeg left.
In Canada there is generally not public funding for stadiums to the level there is in the US and so it is more difficult to build a modern building. Therefore, the Expos largely moved out of Montreal because of a lack of a new building as did the Nords in Que.
I favour private funding, however.
Also, there is no such thing philosophically as a best or most exciting sport. This is the false reasoning used by many in the NHL for marketing to non-hockey markets with teams, as if people see the sport they will be fans. Yes, hockey is growing but so are the other sports still in front of it in the USA . The result is it is quite difficult to be very successful in non-hockey markets without a very successful team and most teams are not very successful.
Therefore, hockey towns with the significant financial backing and economy are overall a better strategy.
Blogs: satire and theology
thekingpin68
What a great video of man with large, very large kitty Cat! What a harmonious relationship between man and beast. I wish that this close relationship between man and nature would be more of the norm for everyone in the world.
ReplyDelete-Dr. Doolittle-
Yes, I agree, we need to bring out the Bob Ross in all of us.
ReplyDeleteThere.
He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the children to their fathers, lest He strike the earth with a curse.
ReplyDeleteMalachi 4:6.
ReplyDeleteThanks Joe.
Christianity and Islam: Two Worldviews and Why They Matter
ReplyDeleteJeff, I suggest you place that in a newer post as well as more people will perhaps look at it.
ReplyDeleteCheers.