I don’t like to be negative on blogs, and I work 60 hours a week and do not want to make hassles. But I reason I need to state this.
It is too controversial for a main post and so I will place it in comments in places.
I also humbly admit my sinfulness and finiteness.
With all the anti-Christian, post-Christian movements in Western society, the Church is hurting itself.
I find often Christians are too weak on justice or love and sometimes both.
Then there is sexual sin, with which I have always admitted as an adult is a struggle for me, in thought primarily. I claim no innocence.
Therefore, I critique it more so as a fellow sinner, saved by grace, in Christ, as opposed to a self-righteous judge. To be clear.
As my post-student self I have been dialoguing with women at work and other from the ages of 17-60+.
I have had many good talks.
Personally, by the way, in my case, I do not find age primary in relating, but rather worldview and shared interests.
I have had a long time to ponder on being single, and although I am no relationship expert, I have developed what I reason are insightful and largely true, at least, perspectives in regard to the problem of evil and relationships. Let us word it that way.
Seems to me, there are two main groups of women, that show interest in me, and I show interest in.
One, the committed Christian. I saw an example of one tonight on a social networking site. She has a very good but likely small Christian ministry. We have not dialogued but she shows as likely at least an occasional viewer of my posts/profile.
I see her personal photos and she has been in a relationship for years and is not married. Further, I look at her photos and she has photos of her and what appears a male ‘relationship partner’ and in some she is dressed beside him with her breasts being very prominent.
Let us cut the crap. I can deduce having studied human nature that 9?% they are having some kind of sexual relations, outside of marriage being together for years.
Virtually no one is being fooled. If that is the goal.
If he is a non-Christian and she is a Christian, and I state if, then we have this same old Western dilemma with Christian women dating and mating non-believers at the expense of believers.
If they are both believers, there is zero excuse, despite social reasons for not marrying or instead the relationship should be ended.
Mathew 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 and 2 Corinthians 6 bring one to the clear theology that marriage is the fix, largely, for fornication. It is very imperfect in this sinful realm, of course.
To not follow that directive when there is a viable partner is definite and definitive sin.
At any age of adulthood.
If one ignores the believer that is interested where there might be mutual interest, that is also definite and definitive sin.
Certainly some are doing this to me...even as I am talking to many women, some in Christ.
In Christians are not marrying (2 Corinthians 6) and fornicating because as I have read Christian men are wimpy, or weird or whatever, this is a female cop-out.
The Christian also discredits self and ministry by publicly claiming Christ and by fornicating.
Again, virtually no one is fooled. If you are dating someone for a year or more and not on the marriage track, come on, fornication is basically likely if not certain.
If not in the flesh, in the mind (Mathew 5, 1 Corinthians 7).
Christian women, need to realize that social rules and social status can be as problematic to females as pornography is to men.
To state that one needs a boyfriend and because only the non-Christians are good, that is the only option, is non-Biblical and a cop-out.
By actions you also at times can deny access to you from Christian men that need to learn how to date better etc...
Realize that the non-Christian can be more experienced and cool, because he can just mate with you for awhile and move on. If you get pregnant, abortion on demand is an option in his worldview, most likely, for example.
Also no guarantee there will be a public and in the family Daddy if the birth occurs.
The Christian man has to be more careful.
And you negate the possibility that perhaps you can learn some spiritual truths from that ‘dork’ or ‘nerd’, you have written off or are saving for ‘maybe later’...
To trust in female intuition and/or social rules, family/friends over Scripture and to be guided by the Holy Spirit is a sinful cop-out.
Putting career above marriage is also sin, if you are fornicating in the process.
And you can fornicate in the head, even while not dating (Matthew 5, 1 Corinthians 7).
Two, the closet Christian that believes but is following the secular route and fornicating.
One needs to ponder.
If you stick with this person outside of Christ there is no guarantee they will come to Christ (1 Corinthians 7, 2 Corinthians 6).
You risk ageing and becoming less attractive if/when you do decide to marry ‘Christian’.
Many men do not like it when they sense have been rejected and later the woman is much older and less attractive and leaves one as a lost option.
I dislike it.
If you have children with the non-Christian, it is less likely that the children will eventually be saved.
Do you want to spend your earthly life, in this present realm with those you may very well have no everlasting future with?
Both these groups, by not dating Christian men, and/or by ignoring Christian men for a ‘better’ option, career or because of social reasons, are although not the primary cause, besides their own potential sin, are effecting single men to potentially sin because of little options with Christian women.
I am not playing Adam here and blaming the woman. Each man will be judged for his own sin, independently, but my point stands.
It is not true that most Christian men prefer porn over actual women. I know I have heard and read studies that some men prefer the cop-out of porn to a relationship, but many, many Christian men are not like that...period.
Lack of willingness to dialogue with a Christian man one likes, perhaps secretly, is a red flag.
I do not buy the ‘I don’t want to hurt him’ argument. If you have rejected the man already, he is already hurt if he likes you.
I reason this is more about the female protecting self. And why is that, exactly?
If the man as not yet sold you emotionally enough to commit to him at all, even as a friend with potential, for example, have you considered that maybe you have not given the man a significant chance to win your heart?
Remember that pre-existing conditions and social rules can have a Christian man virtually written off at the start. But is this Biblical?
I realize that intellectual arguments don’t cause (primarily) romantic feelings.
I am not completely stupid here...Winking smile
But whose rules are you following? Consider we are also influenced by demonic beings to sin.
I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is. Albert Camus
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/topics/topic_religion.html#2cqYXFjpOKvGqjCx.99
"Application" comes down to how you see in God's word what he has to say to you personally, about the new life that he has given you and how it would look. Then you see the gap, the chasm, between the life with the Lord you should have and where you really are right now. That's hard and painful, but with that chasm comes reality, knowing more about yourself—and how much the Lord still loves you. He wants us to open our eyes and see our call to take up our cross daily and follow him.
But are we interested in knowing how that would look and how grand and glorious the changes in our hearts and lives would be? In my academic life I think about where we have gone wrong in looking down on biblical counseling or cross-cultural evangelism or cultural understanding of the Bible. Without doing that, all we have is a bare-bones description of long ago and far away, so it’s important to do that hard work with the word. But aren't there heart sins that lie underneath all that?
That’s where Harvie Conn's de-contextualizing comes in: what is it in my life that’s much too important to me, that I’m enthusiastic about just because that’s the way my world all around me is, and always has been? We all go to meetings, is church just another one? We all have some plan for our lives, is ours just for our happiness or for giving God glory? Everyone is unhappy the way the world is going, are we that way because it's strange or because we mourn the shame coming to the name of the Lord?
That Greatest Commandment, that we "love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength"—if we did that, what would it be like? Jesus did say, "if you love me, keep my commandments," and it's easy to do some bad logic there, that since I do keep his commandments, more or less, better than most people I know, then I must love him. That's too much like saying, since I don't sleep with other women, I must love my wife—we hardly ever talk, that's true, but who does?
Remember that juicy piece of logic, the fallacy of asserting the consequent? If I eat a six pound steak I lose my appetite; I've lost my appetite, so . . . fallacy, fallacy, fallacy! If I go to church, if don't take one step beyond sexy conversation with the other woman, if I haven't forgotten what Calvinism believes, then I must be normal. There's where Harvie helps so much, and all the rest of the good people who teach so well the Bible and how it works with the culture around it. Otherwise it's just talk.
I think about seminaries and pray for them: their job is to train the leaders of Christ's church, and to do that it takes teachers with their own pastoral experience and skill. I had that semester at New College Edinburgh and got to know the grumpy retired professor who wasn't happy with the current crop. In the good old days, he told me, this was the plan: when they needed another professor, they looked for the best pastor they could find, put him on the payroll right away and told him, come back when you have your doctorate. That was their best plan, because—it's a lot easier to make a professor out of a pastor than a pastor out of a professor! Naturally I'm the exception that proves the rule. The point of this story is more thinking about application: a good pastor knows how and does it hourly with his people; that's what he models so well for the rest of us. Pick and support pastors like that, and your church and your own godly life will flourish!)
How do we learn to love the Lord that way? See it in Romans. After that encouraging “Roman road” beginning, that God justifies us because of the righteousness of Christ not our own, then it gets tough. If you sin you’re on your way to become a slave to sin, is what it says. So we must live as dead to sin and alive to God. Then comes Paul’s own outcry at the end of chapter 7, “wretched man that I am,” I try to obey but I always do it wrong!
“Thanks be to God” is the next thing Paul says—isn't that the strangest transition you ever heard? But “wretched” looks backwards at our track record and “thanks” looks ahead to all of the blessings of the Holy Spirit, as for us “God’s love endures forever.” Just go slowly through chapter 8, blessing after blessing and all through Jesus. We don't know how to pray but the Holy Spirit does; in everything God works for our good; we are predestined, called, justified, glorified; God is for us and graciously gives us everything; what shall separate us from the love of Christ? nothing will ever separate us from his love. Whew!
That's how we go from wretched man to thanksgiving. We do face up to where we miserably are, but we remember who the Lord is and how he loves us. I'm convinced now that if we don't do 'wretched,' we may never get to 'nothing will ever separate us from his love.' Pharisees were sure they didn't need Jesus, since they were already perfect. Our humility and knowing the love of Jesus fit together.
We go on to those startling chapters 9-11. Has God forgotten his unbelieving Jewish people? It may look like it, but of course not. The Lord will keep his promises, he will, he does. Then comes the biggest Therefore in the whole Bible, in 12:1, therefore give yourself as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—me, holy and pleasing? That's what God says, and I believe him, because he reminds me how it all comes from his love.
Wretched though we surely are, we are called to turn back to the Lord, to receive all that love again! When we see the “applications” of what the Lord has to say to us, do we see it as glorious that his plan for us is so grand? Or would we be happier if it were more manageable, such as that “if we die tonight, we go to heaven?” Could it be that we are foolishly content with our ignorance of our deep calling? That's where our repentance needs to begin, right now and from our hearts. His love endures forever, and we repent together for thinking and acting otherwise.
Repentance is a humble thing. You’re admitting that evil things don’t just happen, but that you’re to blame. You’re honoring the Lord too at the same time, saying that what the Father gave his Beloved Son to do is much bigger than what you’ve done with it. Above all, repentance is full of hope—from now on the Lord’s glory is going to be displayed much more brightly, as I get my junk out of the way, as a new beginning just began.
Note: friendly mode.Smile
ReplyDeleteI don’t like to be negative on blogs, and I work 60 hours a week and do not want to make hassles. But I reason I need to state this.
It is too controversial for a main post and so I will place it in comments in places.
I also humbly admit my sinfulness and finiteness.
With all the anti-Christian, post-Christian movements in Western society, the Church is hurting itself.
I find often Christians are too weak on justice or love and sometimes both.
Then there is sexual sin, with which I have always admitted as an adult is a struggle for me, in thought primarily. I claim no innocence.
Therefore, I critique it more so as a fellow sinner, saved by grace, in Christ, as opposed to a self-righteous judge. To be clear.
As my post-student self I have been dialoguing with women at work and other from the ages of 17-60+.
I have had many good talks.
Personally, by the way, in my case, I do not find age primary in relating, but rather worldview and shared interests.
I have had a long time to ponder on being single, and although I am no relationship expert, I have developed what I reason are insightful and largely true, at least, perspectives in regard to the problem of evil and relationships. Let us word it that way.
Seems to me, there are two main groups of women, that show interest in me, and I show interest in.
One, the committed Christian. I saw an example of one tonight on a social networking site. She has a very good but likely small Christian ministry. We have not dialogued but she shows as likely at least an occasional viewer of my posts/profile.
I see her personal photos and she has been in a relationship for years and is not married. Further, I look at her photos and she has photos of her and what appears a male ‘relationship partner’ and in some she is dressed beside him with her breasts being very prominent.
Let us cut the crap. I can deduce having studied human nature that 9?% they are having some kind of sexual relations, outside of marriage being together for years.
Virtually no one is being fooled. If that is the goal.
If he is a non-Christian and she is a Christian, and I state if, then we have this same old Western dilemma with Christian women dating and mating non-believers at the expense of believers.
If they are both believers, there is zero excuse, despite social reasons for not marrying or instead the relationship should be ended.
Mathew 5 and 1 Corinthians 7 and 2 Corinthians 6 bring one to the clear theology that marriage is the fix, largely, for fornication. It is very imperfect in this sinful realm, of course.
To not follow that directive when there is a viable partner is definite and definitive sin.
At any age of adulthood.
If one ignores the believer that is interested where there might be mutual interest, that is also definite and definitive sin.
Certainly some are doing this to me...even as I am talking to many women, some in Christ.
In Christians are not marrying (2 Corinthians 6) and fornicating because as I have read Christian men are wimpy, or weird or whatever, this is a female cop-out.
The Christian also discredits self and ministry by publicly claiming Christ and by fornicating.
Cont.
ReplyDeleteHey...
Again, virtually no one is fooled. If you are dating someone for a year or more and not on the marriage track, come on, fornication is basically likely if not certain.
If not in the flesh, in the mind (Mathew 5, 1 Corinthians 7).
Christian women, need to realize that social rules and social status can be as problematic to females as pornography is to men.
To state that one needs a boyfriend and because only the non-Christians are good, that is the only option, is non-Biblical and a cop-out.
By actions you also at times can deny access to you from Christian men that need to learn how to date better etc...
Realize that the non-Christian can be more experienced and cool, because he can just mate with you for awhile and move on. If you get pregnant, abortion on demand is an option in his worldview, most likely, for example.
Also no guarantee there will be a public and in the family Daddy if the birth occurs.
The Christian man has to be more careful.
And you negate the possibility that perhaps you can learn some spiritual truths from that ‘dork’ or ‘nerd’, you have written off or are saving for ‘maybe later’...
To trust in female intuition and/or social rules, family/friends over Scripture and to be guided by the Holy Spirit is a sinful cop-out.
Putting career above marriage is also sin, if you are fornicating in the process.
And you can fornicate in the head, even while not dating (Matthew 5, 1 Corinthians 7).
Think about that...cont..
Cont...
ReplyDeleteTwo, the closet Christian that believes but is following the secular route and fornicating.
One needs to ponder.
If you stick with this person outside of Christ there is no guarantee they will come to Christ (1 Corinthians 7, 2 Corinthians 6).
You risk ageing and becoming less attractive if/when you do decide to marry ‘Christian’.
Many men do not like it when they sense have been rejected and later the woman is much older and less attractive and leaves one as a lost option.
I dislike it.
If you have children with the non-Christian, it is less likely that the children will eventually be saved.
Do you want to spend your earthly life, in this present realm with those you may very well have no everlasting future with?
Both these groups, by not dating Christian men, and/or by ignoring Christian men for a ‘better’ option, career or because of social reasons, are although not the primary cause, besides their own potential sin, are effecting single men to potentially sin because of little options with Christian women.
I am not playing Adam here and blaming the woman. Each man will be judged for his own sin, independently, but my point stands.
It is not true that most Christian men prefer porn over actual women. I know I have heard and read studies that some men prefer the cop-out of porn to a relationship, but many, many Christian men are not like that...period.
Lack of willingness to dialogue with a Christian man one likes, perhaps secretly, is a red flag.
I do not buy the ‘I don’t want to hurt him’ argument. If you have rejected the man already, he is already hurt if he likes you.
I reason this is more about the female protecting self. And why is that, exactly?
If the man as not yet sold you emotionally enough to commit to him at all, even as a friend with potential, for example, have you considered that maybe you have not given the man a significant chance to win your heart?
Remember that pre-existing conditions and social rules can have a Christian man virtually written off at the start. But is this Biblical?
I realize that intellectual arguments don’t cause (primarily) romantic feelings.
I am not completely stupid here...Winking smile
But whose rules are you following? Consider we are also influenced by demonic beings to sin.
Acts 4; heed to God and not man.
I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live as if there isn't and to die to find out that there is.
ReplyDeleteAlbert Camus
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/topics/topic_religion.html#2cqYXFjpOKvGqjCx.99
Prayer does not change God, but it changes him who prays.
ReplyDeleteSoren Kierkegaard
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Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.
ReplyDeleteFrancis of Assisi
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We can only learn to know ourselves and do what we can - namely, surrender our will and fulfill God's will in us.
ReplyDeleteSaint Teresa of Avila
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ReplyDeleteWomen sense this immediately and it literally repels them. my blog;
Then change it...
ReplyDeleteScience without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
ReplyDeleteAlbert Einstein
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Jesus is ideal and wonderful, but you Christians - you are not like him.
ReplyDeleteMahatma Gandhi
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The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go.
ReplyDeleteGalileo Galilei
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If I have any worth, it is to live my life for God so as to teach these peoples; even though some of them still look down on me.
ReplyDeleteSaint Patrick
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There is nothing evil save that which perverts the mind and shackles the conscience.
ReplyDeleteSaint Ambrose
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Joyful Repentance
ReplyDelete"Application" comes down to how you see in God's word what he has to say to you personally, about the new life that he has given you and how it would look. Then you see the gap, the chasm, between the life with the Lord you should have and where you really are right now. That's hard and painful, but with that chasm comes reality, knowing more about yourself—and how much the Lord still loves you. He wants us to open our eyes and see our call to take up our cross daily and follow him.
But are we interested in knowing how that would look and how grand and glorious the changes in our hearts and lives would be? In my academic life I think about where we have gone wrong in looking down on biblical counseling or cross-cultural evangelism or cultural understanding of the Bible. Without doing that, all we have is a bare-bones description of long ago and far away, so it’s important to do that hard work with the word. But aren't there heart sins that lie underneath all that?
That’s where Harvie Conn's de-contextualizing comes in: what is it in my life that’s much too important to me, that I’m enthusiastic about just because that’s the way my world all around me is, and always has been? We all go to meetings, is church just another one? We all have some plan for our lives, is ours just for our happiness or for giving God glory? Everyone is unhappy the way the world is going, are we that way because it's strange or because we mourn the shame coming to the name of the Lord?
ReplyDeleteThat Greatest Commandment, that we "love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength"—if we did that, what would it be like? Jesus did say, "if you love me, keep my commandments," and it's easy to do some bad logic there, that since I do keep his commandments, more or less, better than most people I know, then I must love him. That's too much like saying, since I don't sleep with other women, I must love my wife—we hardly ever talk, that's true, but who does?
Remember that juicy piece of logic, the fallacy of asserting the consequent? If I eat a six pound steak I lose my appetite; I've lost my appetite, so . . . fallacy, fallacy, fallacy! If I go to church, if don't take one step beyond sexy conversation with the other woman, if I haven't forgotten what Calvinism believes, then I must be normal. There's where Harvie helps so much, and all the rest of the good people who teach so well the Bible and how it works with the culture around it. Otherwise it's just talk.
ReplyDeleteI think about seminaries and pray for them: their job is to train the leaders of Christ's church, and to do that it takes teachers with their own pastoral experience and skill. I had that semester at New College Edinburgh and got to know the grumpy retired professor who wasn't happy with the current crop. In the good old days, he told me, this was the plan: when they needed another professor, they looked for the best pastor they could find, put him on the payroll right away and told him, come back when you have your doctorate. That was their best plan, because—it's a lot easier to make a professor out of a pastor than a pastor out of a professor! Naturally I'm the exception that proves the rule. The point of this story is more thinking about application: a good pastor knows how and does it hourly with his people; that's what he models so well for the rest of us. Pick and support pastors like that, and your church and your own godly life will flourish!)
ReplyDeleteHow do we learn to love the Lord that way? See it in Romans. After that encouraging “Roman road” beginning, that God justifies us because of the righteousness of Christ not our own, then it gets tough. If you sin you’re on your way to become a slave to sin, is what it says. So we must live as dead to sin and alive to God. Then comes Paul’s own outcry at the end of chapter 7, “wretched man that I am,” I try to obey but I always do it wrong!
“Thanks be to God” is the next thing Paul says—isn't that the strangest transition you ever heard? But “wretched” looks backwards at our track record and “thanks” looks ahead to all of the blessings of the Holy Spirit, as for us “God’s love endures forever.” Just go slowly through chapter 8, blessing after blessing and all through Jesus. We don't know how to pray but the Holy Spirit does; in everything God works for our good; we are predestined, called, justified, glorified; God is for us and graciously gives us everything; what shall separate us from the love of Christ? nothing will ever separate us from his love. Whew!
ReplyDeleteThat's how we go from wretched man to thanksgiving. We do face up to where we miserably are, but we remember who the Lord is and how he loves us. I'm convinced now that if we don't do 'wretched,' we may never get to 'nothing will ever separate us from his love.' Pharisees were sure they didn't need Jesus, since they were already perfect. Our humility and knowing the love of Jesus fit together.
We go on to those startling chapters 9-11. Has God forgotten his unbelieving Jewish people? It may look like it, but of course not. The Lord will keep his promises, he will, he does. Then comes the biggest Therefore in the whole Bible, in 12:1, therefore give yourself as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—me, holy and pleasing? That's what God says, and I believe him, because he reminds me how it all comes from his love.
Wretched though we surely are, we are called to turn back to the Lord, to receive all that love again! When we see the “applications” of what the Lord has to say to us, do we see it as glorious that his plan for us is so grand? Or would we be happier if it were more manageable, such as that “if we die tonight, we go to heaven?” Could it be that we are foolishly content with our ignorance of our deep calling? That's where our repentance needs to begin, right now and from our hearts. His love endures forever, and we repent together for thinking and acting otherwise.
Repentance is a humble thing. You’re admitting that evil things don’t just happen, but that you’re to blame. You’re honoring the Lord too at the same time, saying that what the Father gave his Beloved Son to do is much bigger than what you’ve done with it. Above all, repentance is full of hope—from now on the Lord’s glory is going to be displayed much more brightly, as I get my junk out of the way, as a new beginning just began.
ReplyDeleteD. Clair Davis