Wednesday, October 01, 2008
Do we bleed with greed?
Heiligenblut, Austria (photo from trekearth.com)
I am Canadian and do not vote in American elections. Therefore, I do not support either major political party. Even with all his faults, I have to admit Bill Clinton is both likable and intelligent. I am not an economist, but I tend to favour free market approaches with government regulation in order to monitor and to some extent regulate, but not control, the economy.
I can agree with Clinton that much of the current economic crisis relates to homeownership and people taking and receiving loans that they should not have taken and received.
Some of Bill Clinton's thoughts on financial issues from January:
bnet
OAKLAND - Homeowners teetering on the edge of foreclosure need immediate help - federal dollars funneled through local relief efforts - before a long-term fix to the mortgage crisis can be hammered out, former President Bill Clinton said Wednesday...
He noted:
These years have seen "a deliberate attempt to give people more mortgages on more attractive terms because we weren't achieving economic growth any other way," the two-term former president told a hand-picked group of community leaders, homeowners and campaign supporters Wednesday...
"This happened because everyone assumed the only stable part of our economy was home ownership," he said. But even veteran economists didn't seem to see interest rates would rise "if we kept borrowing money like a drunken sailor as a country." What has happened is "a systematic failing of the American economy and the way the mortgage market works," with homeowners - many of whom never missed a monthly payment until those payments suddenly ballooned out of control - taking the hit.
With the net cost to society for every foreclosure hovering somewhere around $250,000 - what with homeowners' losses, neighbors' lowered property values and other costs - "the dumbest thing we can do here is nothing The most expensive way to handle this problem is to let the foreclosures occur."
"We need to stop the bleeding here," he said.
My take on this is philosophical and theological, and not primarily economical.
I have been a student for several years and have accumulated student loan debt and credit card debt related to my academic studies. I would like to earn my PhD and become a professor and get out of debt. I hate being in debt, but with sleep apnea I have not been able to work full-time and work on full-time academic degrees simultaneously. I also have been working 20-30 hours a week at academic theological blogging in order to have recent teaching experience on my curriculum vitae/resume. This can be done on my own time, at strange hours, from home.
I would one day like to have a fairly large house with a large backyard. I would like to have a new car. However, with my present debt and the fact I have been a student for a long time, perhaps I will not be able to own a large house for a time. Perhaps because of debt I will have to live with less, until I can afford more. I may have to settle for renting an apartment or purchasing a small apartment, that is nice, but not my ideal.
It is likely that millions of people in the Western World are, to be blunt, just too materialistic. Perhaps they put too much emphasis on maximizing credit in order to purchase the most expensive home and car, among other things, possible. Financial problems could largely be avoided if persons would live within their means and have a manageable monthly mortgage payment, and a manageable car payment, or perhaps simply hold on to an older car that works fine for a longer period of time.
Philosophically, as a person in debt, I do not think that maximizing credit in order to maximize material possessions is worth it. It is risky and can lead to the type of foreclosure and economic problems we are currently experiencing in the Western World, notably the USA and UK.
A better and wiser approach is to live within one's means, and to live in a way that allows room for error, illness and disaster. If this means a smaller home, and older car, so be it. The peace of financial stability is worth it in my opinion.
Proverbs 22: 7
American King James Version
The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
American Standard Version
The rich ruleth over the poor; And the borrower is servant to the lender.
The Christian should pray that greed not be a major factor in financial decisions. I fully believe in bettering oneself, and that includes finacially, but debt should be manageable.
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Greed is a sickness and one philosophy that I live by is
ReplyDelete"Live within your means"
-Frugally Frugal-
Thanks, F.F.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on that point.
With so much emphasis on this crisis on daily television, may we all become "better educated" financially. To me there would be no satisfaction in having that really nice large home on acreage, furnished with the finest, when in fact it is mortgaged to the hilt, driving an expensive automobile and wearing the finest of clothes, when the credit cards companies are getting the benefit of all the interest charges. To get to this tragic financial crisis, the damage must have been done over the past many years (not just eight as some say) but maybe more like thirty plus plus years, and it is now at the point of there being no way to fix it.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Anon.
ReplyDeleteI can agree that the present problems were a long time in the making. I hope many of these problems are fixable with new ideas, as I hope these present problems are not part of a very serious Western decline.
Russ
I would like to think it would help if we citizens of the U.S.A were to have less money "stolen" from us every week in the form of "taxes". Our government forces us to look to it for "handouts" because it is taking so much of our hard-earned money away from us. If we were allowed to keep more of the money that we earn, we wouldn't be so hard-pressed to pay our bills when a crunch arises.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, however, we are such a "materialistic" society that is so used to spending money that we don't have that it probably wouldn't make a difference if the government decided to end income tax forever. We would have more money...but we would rationalize spending even more money that we don't have on bigger and "new and improved" things that we don't need.
We need the Gospel--for salvation and direction!
p.s. love the cartoons!
if the government decided to end income tax forever.
ReplyDeleteJason, how would the government finance things such as the military?
Taxes are too high here in Canada and generally worse that in the USA. My brother lives in Arizona and in 2002 told me his tax rate was 26%, compared to 50% in Canada.
Thanks.
Russ
"Jason, how would the government finance things such as the military?"
ReplyDeleteEven though my point was simply that if there were no income tax and we actually kept what we earned, as a people who are overly materialistic, we would still go into debt buying things because we simply want them...with little or no thought about our future.
But as far as national security, which I believe is the main purpose of a "national" government (with the possible addition of limited funding for limited "social" policies), there are a number of ways to fund it. Shrinking and eventually eliminating excess government waste and pork spending; shrinking the size of the government (agencies, organizations, employees, etc.); getting rid of the outrageous government employee retirement "subsidy" program (that's right, that's what I call it):-) etc. (this is just a quick list off the top of my head)
Obviously we've created a "monster" that would be nearly impossible to kill; but if were to significantly shrink national government and allow the states to "govern" themselves not only would there be more accountability for those in public office, but people will choose to live in the states that allow them the best opportunity to live their lives in the way that they want. Of course, there would have to be some "federal" oversight to combat discrimination and other moral evils. But the principle is sound.
TERM LIMITS, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course, as I've mentioned before: I'm not really all that concerned about things. I'll do what I think is right and allow our Sovereign Lord to continue to exercise His rule over all things. I don't look to the government for my well-being; but I do look forward to the consummation when all things will be put right and Shalom will once again be the reality in which God's created order exists--all to the Glory of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.
Excuse my "rambling", but I don't have time to "edit" these remarks--do you believe that they actually want me to work while on the job? :-)
Thanks, Jason.
ReplyDeleteThe entire public mindset and political system needs to change. The government should run the military and police, and monitor and regulate, but here in Canada the government is very heavily depended on to look after the people.
As long as that mentality remains we shall have high taxes and government abuse.
I have refrained from saying too much about this current economic crisis here in the US because, for one, I am not very well-versed in economics and it gets into political discussions that I really don't enjoy.
ReplyDeleteThe point that I would want to stress above all is that this is not an economic or political issue. This is first and foremost a moral and ethical issue.
I know the US congress has worked out more of a deal now, but yesterday when they rejected the first bill, I was pleased. I was not pleased because it jeopardizes the financial situations of many people, but because this was not entirely the fault of the government.
Yes, Wall Street can be blamed for corruption. Yes, the government can be blamed for poor and unethical business practices. But I am tired of hearing only them get the blame. You need to go to the root of the problem, and the reality is, that if the individual American was not consumed by such unquenchable greed in the first place, we would not be in this situation.
This is why I say it is primarily a moral issue. Clinton is right that we need to look at the way individuals manage their money, but it is not just a practical matter like that, it is a heart matter. You can still be overcome by greed and have some better money management skills. But eventually the problem will resurface again. You need to completely eradicate the greed first.
The Bible, as always, is right. You cannot serve two masters.
Thank you, Jake.
ReplyDeleteI take it that you and I are in general agreement on the issue.
Russ:)
"This is first and foremost a moral and ethical issue."
ReplyDeleteWell said, Jake. I couldn't agree more.
I've been having conversations with Don, the DHL driver who comes by here everyday. While I wouldn't call him a Christian (though, I'm continuing to "plant seeds"), I hear in his speech the "conscience of God" as he speaks of morality and "right and wrong" from a universal and even transcendant perspective. He clearly knows the truth, but as with us all before our calling he is "supressing the truth" in unrighteousness.
Anyway, in our talks he has also mentioned that the people of this country are also to blame. Because of our inherent greed and our "materialistic" bent, we get ourselves into debt...which banks and other lending organizations are all too willing to facilitate.
Don puts the blame 50/50 on us, the people, and on WallStreet/Lending institutions, etc. And I agree. Without us, this situation would never have happened. And the institutions are also morally culpable for feeding greed--ours and their own!
Jake is exactly right; it is a moral and ethical issue. And I think all of us are to blame. If we "Christians" took our calling seriously, first of all we wouldn't be contributing to this mess by being part of the problem and secondly, we would be "making disciples" of Christ through our witness by the power of the Spirit and therefore there would be less people living for themselves and contributing to this mess.
Hopefully that last sentance made sense--sometimes it's hard to put in writing what I'm thinking in my head. Anyway...we're all to blame and, as Jake said, it is not primarily an "economic" issue--it is a "moral and ethical" issue.
GGM
I live in st paul mn, I cannot stand Bill C. Sexist lying pig.
ReplyDeletetheir are so many problems, that it really runs deeper than the avrage joe over spending.
A lot of it is greed from the powerful big wigs in power. I also believe their is so much or goverment is not telling us. I also believe this is setting us up for the end times. rick b
Don puts the blame 50/50 on us, the people, and on WallStreet/Lending institutions, etc. And I agree. Without us, this situation would never have happened. And the institutions are also morally culpable for feeding greed--ours and their own!
ReplyDeleteThere can be greed when persons overspend, and there can also be corporate greed as they can at times put money ahead of the highest forms of morality possible. Something may not be grossly immoral, but is also not the highest form of morality. I have in my mind the idea of influencing persons to finance something that they can barely afford instead of something that they can safely afford.
Thanks, GGM.
Russ
Thanks, Rick.
ReplyDeleteHopefully this is not the beginning of a major decline of Western society. I state this in the context of hoping that we can maintain our political freedom from outside forces, and also maintain our religious freedom.
Sadly, the debt that is owed in the western world, via credit, is a result I think of the way we have become immediate societies. WE want everything and we want it NOW. Fast and convient food, was only the start of it; now we have to have everything with immediate affect, (often) even if it puts a millstone of debt around our necks to have it.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Deejay, many in Western society do want things immediately. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteRuss:)
American society, as far as buying, is based on debt (i.e., credit), just as advertising is based on coveting.
ReplyDeleteFor most of my life, I did not have a credit card. I paid in cash. And I was better off than I am now, because I never, ever, had any debt (other than the last college I attended, which took me 5 years to pay off (plus the 2 years I attended), even though I worked the entire time as well as taking a full load of classes, and even worked 2 jobs at one point, while every cent I earned went automatically toward tuition).
Only once have I gone into credit card debt, and thankfully, it only took me a few months or so to get out of it. I have known people to get very, very deep into credit card debt, to the point where they had to seek professional help to consolidate their debts.
I rented an apartment for a long time, and people told me I was just throwing my money away. Well, now I have a nice house, thanks to a program of classes that I attended 2 years ago, provided through the county, that assists new homeowners. My mortgage, which began higher than any of my rent payments ever were, more than doubled very soon after I bought the house. In a couple weeks from now, the entire department at the city newspaper where I work as a Graphic Artist will be laid off (and some are being relocated to another city). And right now, jobs are very difficult to find in this city. I have only been working 6 hours a day for the past 10 months (though the hourly wage has been good), so I have not built up any savings. If I don't find a job immediately after I am laid off, I will not be able to pay my mortgage.
I suspect the economy is only going to get worse, just as I suspect the weather (hurricanes, etc.) is only going to get worse (for example, since hurricanes in recent years have broken all records). I suspect that we, as Christians, may be forced to hold on to God more tightly than ever before, as harder times than we have ever experienced before in our lifetimes may possibly lie ahead. Not that I'm hoping for that, but that is what I suspect.
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteI hope and pray things become better for you soon. I can relate to financial problems as I am a PhD student.
Thanks to my late dad, who pounded common sense (as well as frugality) into me, I have never, ever owned a brand new car.
ReplyDeleteMy current car is a 2001 white Pontiac Sunfire, which is the first 'sporty' car I have ever owned, and I am very happy with it. It is also the newest car I have ever bought, since I bought it only a year after it was made. When I bought it, my dad made a deal with me. He said that he would pay for it, and have me pay him back on a monthly basis, with him charging me less interest than the bank would. That way, I saved money, and he made a little money over time. That was pretty smart of him, I think. That was the only time I have ever made payments on a car (and I have owned several or more cars, including a Cadillac).
I hope and pray things become better for you soon.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Russ. The Lord has never failed me, and never will.
Governments are run by humans, and as such are subject to corruption, greed, and lust for power/control. Just as we as individuals need an external check on our sinful waywardness -- God's Word and the work of the Holy Spirit -- so too governments need an external check on waywardness. The gold standard used to provide such a check on government spending, holding them accountable and allowing the free market to quickly deal with distortions, just as forest fires clear out the deadwood and allow forests to regenerate. When there are no external checks, corruption and mismanagement are not dealt with, so they continue longer and the whole situation is made much worse. The great depression need not have lasted more than a year or two, but dragged out for a decade thanks to statist intervention (the New Deal). Unfortunately, applying fiscal discipline means great short term pain, but results in a healthier situation afterward. I believe that, if the U.S. continues implementing socialist policies as a way to deal with things, we could well be facing a "greater" depression. A lot will depend on how much people value freedom, ethics and morality, and are willing to stand up for their country.
ReplyDeleteThese ideas are the basic philosophies of Austrian economics and libertarianism (see www.mises.org for lots of articles).
Your Dad seemed liked a good guy.
ReplyDeleteJeff,
What did a Big Mac evolve from?
Clinton has conveniently changed his tune since bailing out S&L, the originators of the new financial economy, at taxpayer expense.
ReplyDeleteRuss,
ReplyDeleteYour Dad seemed liked a good guy.
Thanks.
Jeff,
What did a Big Mac evolve from?
Um...from White Castle burgers??
chucky said...
ReplyDeleteI believe that, if the U.S. continues implementing socialist policies as a way to deal with things, we could well be facing a "greater" depression. A lot will depend on how much people value freedom, ethics and morality, and are willing to stand up for their country.
If that's the case, then the U.S. is doomed. Morality and patriotism are nearing extinction.
Jeff, perhaps the Big Mac evolved from a pile of salt and suger.:)
ReplyDeleteThanks, Chuck.
ReplyDeleteGovernments do need external checks, but many people are so reliant on them, they fail to be a check for the most part. People give up too much power by depending on the state too much.
Capitalism needs checks as well, and the government needs to do this without being on the payroll, even if indirectly and figuratively.
Clinton has conveniently changed his tune since bailing out S&L, the originators of the new financial economy, at taxpayer expense.
ReplyDeleteI read this as well.:)
Jeff, perhaps the Big Mac evolved from a pile of salt and suger.:)
ReplyDeleteLOL! Good one, Russ.
Thanks, Jeff.
ReplyDeleteOnce again satire and theology passes thekingpin68 in comments.
Good blog Russ.
ReplyDeleteWe are running scared here in Australia and I just cannot understand why. We are all living pretty well that's for sure, but the problem is we want more. Downsize is a dirty word, it does not look good in this crazy world. So what's the cure for this upwardly climb, maybe it's time we all went into decline.
Maybe I'm a peot and I don't know it but let us put this whole thing into perspective.
Again the link to the guy that preached about the currency of heaven makes me wonder sometimes if we Christians have got things a bit out of shape to.
Anyway just a thought.
Russell from the blessed land down under
Those are good thoughts, Russell.
ReplyDeleteI do hope things turn around in regard to finances and people turning to Christ by God's calling. But, it may take things to become worse before many people will repent of strong materialism.
I am working on a reply for your comment on thekingpin68.
Russ
Hey Russ,
ReplyDeleteI have a couple of questions for you. Are you doing anything to change your situation?
I understand that there is a problem in completing your PHD. What are you doing about this? Please understand this is not an accusation, it is a straight forward question.
If you are completing your PhD, you may not be able to attack your indebtedness problem.
Reality: it is very difficult to get a professorship in almost any area. I have family experience in this arena. You and all of us need a Plan B. The ideal job is long in coming. AND usually professorship positions pay lousy.
Blessings and Prayers,
Vicki
Thanks, Vicki.
ReplyDeleteGood questions.
I am in a very tough situation presently. My sleep apnea, which causes fatigue and for me to be heavier that I should be, is not presently being adequately treated. I am on CPAP with the pressure up 6.5 levels from basic, but I cannot wear the mask close to my face without feeling as though I am suffocating. I wear the mask somewhat loosely. I need $8,000 for braces for a year, and then I can have my top and bottom jaw bones (maxilla and mandible) moved forward 12 mm, which should cure my sleep apnea 99%. The government will cover the jaw surgery but not the dental.
Although I have lost 15 pounds with CPAP and continue to raise the air pressure over time, at this time I still need more than 6 hours a night with the mask, as I throw the mask off at night when I am asleep. Therefore I am in bed for 10 or so hours. The result is I am less fatigued than prior to CPAP, but I am still very fatigued in the early morning. This would make it difficult to get ready early in the morning five days a week. Once working full-time I need dental insurance very quickly. I am taking Benadryl for allergies and also in order to get to sleep with the CPAP mask at all, otherwise I fall asleep without the mask and wake up even more tired.
Without the CPAP, within a week my health declines and my weight goes up.
I can do nothing concerning the completion of my PhD. I handed in my thesis on time and Wales needs to find an external examiner. So far they have failed at this twice.
I have been a full-time student with part-time work for 17 years and at present do not have the skill or health for a plan B. I need to finish this PhD and need to have enough money to pay for the braces and receive the jaw surgery in order to broaden my possibilities. I have the brains for a plan B.
I reason I should be able to start as an Associate Professor somewhere and build up to Professor level. If not I still need to have much better health to extend my life significantly and have the energy to pursue options.
Russ:)
Russ,
ReplyDeleteAs encouragement regarding a job:
When I moved from Miami to Ocala, everyone told me that this is not a technology-oriented area, and that I would never find a job doing computer graphics. Well, after moving here, I have worked as a Graphic Artist to create sign artwork (until their business got so slow that they had almost no work, and I had nothing to do); at a marketing company, designing 3D artist-renderings of custom products (until God moved me out of there, which I'm thankful for, because they participated in some wicked things...demanding that their employees lie to customers; promoting homosexuality, lesbianism, Islam, hatred against blacks, etc. Plus, having factories in China); and now, at the city newspaper as a Graphic Artist. Everyone told me getting a job as a Graphic Artist was impossible, but I have done it (with God's help and leading).
Of course, I also was out of work for several months, and had to stop buying groceries, drop my Internet service, drop my cable TV service, etc., and get 2 jobs that I thought I would never, ever get...one as a telemarketer and one working at a fireworks warehouse. During this time, I lost 20 lbs. since I was only eating bread and only drinking water. But God taught me a lesson in humility...and I needed to lose weight anyway! LOL!
In 2 weeks, my entire department will be laid off, so I will have to find another job again, and many companies, even very large ones, have been laying off employees here. So, it will not be easy, but I will put my trust in God.
My point, however, is that, everyone told me getting a job as a Graphic Artist would be impossible. Yet, with God's grace and help, I have proved them wrong. With man, some things are impossible. But with God, nothing is impossible.
Russ,
ReplyDeleteAs another offer of encouragement:
When I moved from Miami to Ocala, the average income here is less than half of what I used to make in Miami.
Yet, in Miami, I had a one-bedroom apartment for years. Here in Ocala, even though the pay is far less generally, I now have a 3-bedroom house.
In Miami, I never, ever was able to get a sporty-looking car like I always wanted. Now, in Ocala, I am very thankful for the first sporty-looking car I have ever owned.
In Miami, I would have to drive to a laundromat where nobody spoke any English, and stay there for a few hours or so until my laundry was done. When I first moved to Ocala, I had a short walk through a nice, enjoyable wooded area path to the laundry room, and rarely was anyone there. I could put my laundry in the washer or dryer and walk back to my apartment, noting the time so that I could come back when the clothes were done. That was far, far better than my situation in Miami. Now, I have a washer and dryer in my garage.
In Miami, I had to wade through a maze of chicken poop on an asphalt walkway, and smell the sickening, overpowering stink of many cats who had used the area for a litterbox, just to get from my front door to my car. And, if it was raining, I had to carry an umbrella or get wet. Now, I just go through the door from my house into my car garage.
I do have to put up with two constantly-barking rat terriers that live behind me, and they are incredibly annoying, but in Miami, I had to put up with roosters crowing at all hours, just a few feet from my bed, with only a thin wall and jalousies separating us. So they were even worse than the dogs.
In Miami, whenever I went to the stores, few people spoke English...sometimes, nobody spoke English. When I moved to Ocala, I actually had to get used to hearing people around me speak English, because it sounded so odd.
Driving is also far, far, FAR more pleasant here...although it is getting a little worse, as more and more people from the bigger cities are moving here. The streets are also far cleaner here than in Miami.
In summary, I am thankful for the Lord's grace, mercy and kindness, and for His many blessings.
Jeff, thanks.
ReplyDeleteI did telemarketing and labour work in the summer for a few years while I was working on courses with degrees. I have worked at security and the census while a thesis student.
Jeff, I pray the Lord will bless us both with fine paid work.
In some countries, if you become a Christian, the only job you can get is cleaning human feces off the street.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember what country or countries that was, but I know that in India, they have Dalits, some of which are Christians, and they have to do tasks such as clean up human waste with their bare hands, clean up dead animals, etc. They do not have the same rights as other citizens.
Things may be somewhat tough here, but at least we don't have it as bad as that.
Here is some practical advice on How to Persuade An Atheist To Become Christian
ReplyDeleteOf course, only the Holy Spirit can transform a person, through regeneration, but the article does make some good points, and contain some helpful hints.
British Muslim 'bullied' for converting to Christianity
ReplyDeleteFrom The Times
April 28, 2008
Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
"A British citizen who converted to Christianity from Islam and then complained to police when locals threatened to burn his house down was told by officers to “stop being a crusader”, according to a new report.
Nissar Hussein, 43, from Bradford, West Yorkshire, who was born and raised in Britain, converted from Islam to Christianity with his wife, Qubra, in 1996. The report says that he was subjected to a number of attacks and, after being told that his house would be burnt down if he did not repent and return to Islam, reported the threat to the police. It says he was told that such threats were rarely carried out and the police officer told him to “stop being a crusader and move to another place”. A few days later the unoccupied house next door was set on fire.
Christian Solidarity Worldwide, a British human rights organisation whose president is the former Cabinet minister Jonathan Aitken, is calling on the UN and the international community to take action against nations and communities that punish apostasy.
Its report, No Place to Call Home, claims that apostates from Islam are subject to “gross and wideranging human rights abuses”. It adds that in countries such as Britain, with large Muslim populations in a Westernised culture, the demand to maintain a Muslim identity is intense. “When identities are precarious, their enforcement will take an aggressive form.”
from Times Online
Thanks, Jeff.
ReplyDelete