Thursday, October 22, 2009

Atheistic praxis and should I seek an interview with Oral Roberts University?


Christ's Chapel at Oral Roberts University, Tulsa Oklahoma (Looks nice)

1. I have had many major formatting difficulties with this post!

2. I am interviewed at...

examiner.com

3. A dear relative satirically suggests that due to my debt I should pursue a career as a televangelist via a job as a professor at...

oral roberts university

-Would it work for me to work there with my Reformed views?

-Would you support me as a televangelist? I think I have a face for radio.

-I do not know much about the University and I am not presenting or implying any firm opinion.

4. Below are edited thoughts on atheistic praxis from my PhD. Views on my Reformed sovereignty theodicy can be primarily found here:

thekingpin68

Critical/Atheistic Praxis

Praxis is concerned with not merely applying theoretical knowledge, but adding to knowledge in the process of practically applying theory.

These three theodicy (free will, sovereignty and soul-making) view evil as part of the end goal praxis of bringing about a greater good and justifying God, his perfect goodness and plans in the end. C. Robert Mesle has noted these types of views that use greater good arguments make God the author of evil and make evil less than genuine. Mesle (1986: 418). Atheist William Rowe states that not all evil can be used for the greater good and certainly some must be gratuitous. Rowe (1990: 1-3). The greater good argument can always be challenged with good counter-arguments. Rowe (1990: 1-3). Mesle (1986: 418). Although I disagree with the concept of gratuitous evil, I accept Rowe’s point that some evil is inscrutable which is evil that cannot be understood reasonably well by human beings. Rowe (1990: 3). An atheistic (possibly agnostic and deistic as well) praxis concerning the problem of evil could be that life has no deeper meaning or purpose beyond physical death, and that all persons suffer and die with no further meaning to life. Darrow (1932)(1973: 453). Science, although very valuable, does not offer humanity an end directed goal of continued life. Darrow writes the best one can do is basically cling to life on earth as we head toward ‘a common doom.’ Darrow (1932)(1973: 453). An atheistic praxis coming from this type of view could be criticized as negative, but science cannot be primarily sought for support of theodicy, and theodicy should be based on solid religious and philosophical reasoning. In the case of free will and sovereignty perspectives, there is a heavy reliance on Scriptural revelation which is based in history. Hick’s view has an understanding that God could begin to be understood to some degree in metaphorical terms through the writings of a variety of religious traditions. Hick (1993: 126). He takes a Kantian understanding that God could not be affirmed as an actual or possible concept, although God can be assumed as possible. Kant (1788)(1898)(2006: 1). Hick takes this idea of Kant’s and deduces that when it comes to religious doctrine the noumena realm that relates to the phenomena realm may have little in common with resulting phenomena. Hick in Geivett (1993: 230).

In contrast, I reason:


God has revealed self in historical Biblical Scripture.

The infinite God can make self somewhat known to finite creatures.

God regenerates the elect (John 3, Ephesians 1, Romans 8).

Salvific knowledge of God is not primarily theoretical.

Christainity is of reasonable faith and philosophy of religion.

Certainly, an idea behind the writing of my PhD thesis has been to make it clear that blind faith fueled theodicy is not intellectually acceptable. Theodicy should be based on research and reason using and considering a variety of perspectives.

DARROW, CLARENCE (1928)(1973) ‘The Myth of the Soul’, in The Forum, October, in Paul Edwards and Arthur Pap (eds.), A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press.

DARROW, CLARENCE (1932)(1973) ‘The Delusion of Design and Purpose’, in The Story of My Life, October, in Paul Edwards and Arthur Pap (eds.), A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press.

HICK, JOHN (1993) ‘Afterword’ in GEIVETT, R. DOUGLAS (1993) Evil and the Evidence for God, Philadelphia, Temple University Press.

HICK, JOHN (1993) The Metaphor of God Incarnate, Louisville, Kentucky, John Know Press.

KANT, IMMANUEL (1788)(1898)(2006) The Critique of Practical Reason, Translated by Thomas Kingsmill Abbott, London, Longmans, Green, and Co.

MESLE, C. ROBERT (1986) ‘The Problem of Genuine Evil: A Critique of John Hick’s Theodicy’, in The Journal of Religion, Volume 66, Number 4, pp. 412-430. October, Chicago, University of Chicago Press.

PHILLIPS, D.Z. (2005) The Problem of Evil and the Problem of God, Fortress Press, Minneapolis.

ROWE, WILLIAM L. (1990) ‘The Problem of Evil and Some Varieties of Atheism’, in Adams and Adams (eds.), The Problem of Evil, Oxford, Oxford University Press.

42 comments:

  1. Yeah! This sand is beautiful. It looks like the Saara Desert, but smaller. LOL

    Brazil has so many places to know! We have cold and warm weather, ocean beaches, rivers, lakes, forests, mountains, historical monuments, ... we have a lot to explore in here!

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  2. Hey Russ, Go check out the Topic "Big Bang" on Interested's blog, Then read the first 4 replys, I figure if I ask enough questions and she answers them she will expose what a liar she is, I believe it finally happened. I think you will like it, Jeff if you have not seen my newest reply, chech hers out to me and my reply. Rick b

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  3. What an interesting concept of you being a televangelist. I wonder what kind of accent and pitch you would have to push to keep your viewers interested?
    -Just Curious-

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  4. Since Oral himself managed to avoid getting struck down by lautnin', thanks to raising more than 8 million dollars in university donations, some years ago, his son and daughter-in-law have taken over the scandal mantle.
    Yeah, probably a place to avoid...

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  5. The confrontations with the bulls and people was quite disturbing but equally intriguing. Silly People!
    -Walter T. Franklin-

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  6. 'What an interesting concept of you being a televangelist. I wonder what kind of accent and pitch you would have to push to keep your viewers interested?
    -Just Curious-'

    Are you 'suggestin'' southern?

    'The confrontations with the bulls and people was quite disturbing but equally intriguing. Silly People!
    -Walter T. Franklin-'

    All the silly people, where do they all belong.

    Portugal.

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  7. Yikes!

    From:

    Chucky Roberts link

    'Richard Roberts is accused of illegal involvement in a local political campaign and lavish spending at donors’ expense, including numerous home remodeling projects, use of the university jet for his daughter’s senior trip to the Bahamas, and a red Mercedes convertible and a Lexus SUV for his wife, Lindsay.

    Lindsay Roberts is accused of dropping tens of thousands of dollars on clothes, awarding nonacademic scholarships to friends of her children and sending scores of text messages on university-issued cell phones to people described in the lawsuit as “underage males.”'

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  8. Russ, if you become a televangelist, I will send in money to support you. Of course, first I need to get a job.

    Rick, I will check out your reply to Interested on her site.

    I attended a 4-hour class on Islam today, taught by a missionary to Muslims. I also purchased some more books and DVDs on Islam.

    I am currently holding a private conversation with a Muslim on Facebook, who is not a Facebook friend, and who challenged me without introducing himself. I will try to be polite and kind, since the other Muslim I talked to on Facebook a few weeks ago, who also was not a Facebook friend, and who just sent a private message to me, challenging me, ended up very badly. Hopefully, the conversation with this Muslim will go much better.

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  9. Last night, I watched "The Brave and the Bold" for the first time. It was a cartoon featuring Batman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Black Manta, and a few others, including the main villain (whom I have never heard of), named the Music Meister, and they turned it into a musical. That was the weirdest and silliest thing I have ever seen in a superhero cartoon. They were all singing and dancing.

    Tonight I watched the DVD, "Superman Batman Public Enemies," and it was much better than I had hoped. They featured a number of different super villains and superheroes, which was great. The plot line was surprisingly appropriate for the current political situation in the U.S., and one could easily make a number of interesting correlations.

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  10. Thanks, Jeff.

    I know I can count on your $upport.

    I respect you for learning more about Islam and for sharing.

    I just viewed District 9 tonight with Saint Chucklins and it was reasonably good.

    I viewed the preview of 'Superman Batman Public Enemies' and it looked interesting.

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  11. This is interesting, though please do not ask me to defend it, because I am not a theologian. In fact, I am still wrestling with it (somewhat) myself. Russ and some others here can comment on it better than I can:

    Regeneration Precedes Faith
    By R. C. Sproul

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  12. 'Yet Aquinas insisted that regenerating grace is operative grace, not cooperative grace. Aquinas spoke of prevenient grace, but he spoke of a grace that comes before faith, which is regeneration.'

    God regenerates by his choice alone.

    Regeneration is a one time event but preaching and teaching, for example, can be used in the process leading to regeneration.

    No person will follow Christ on own.

    So, the initial choice and divine act of regeneration precedes human faith/belief. But it causes simultaneous human faith/belief in order to avoid hard determinism and force and coercion. I do not believe that normal minded persons are regenerated without conscious understanding of it.

    In other words, regeneration1, God's choice and act must precede human faith and belief based on Scripture with concepts of election and human sin nature. Regeneration2 the workings in a person takes place within the mind/spirit simultaneously with faith and belief in order to avoid hard determinism and force and coercion of the person.

    There is one regeneration but two aspects I suppose.

    That is my PhD view.

    Thanks, Jeff.

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  13. Further notes:

    'I do not believe that normal minded persons are regenerated without conscious understanding of it.'

    This is limited.

    'In other words, regeneration1, God's choice and act must precede human faith and belief based on Scripture with concepts of election and human sin nature. Regeneration2 the workings in a person takes place within the mind/spirit simultaneously with faith and belief in order to avoid hard determinism and force and coercion of the person.

    There is one regeneration but two aspects I suppose.'

    Regeneration1 also includes working in persons as God moulds persons into believers. This would not necessarily be consciously understood by believers. Regeneration2 workings would be the Holy Spirit providing a person with conscious understanding. I have not seen any Biblical reason to believe that regeneration and moudling of a person via the Holy Spirit would not include both a changing of a person by God that may not be consciously understood by a person and also a conscious component, as in 'the gospel now makes sense.'

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  14. Regeneration1 also includes working in persons as God moulds persons into believers. This would not necessarily be consciously understood by believers. Regeneration2 workings would be the Holy Spirit providing a person with conscious understanding. I have not seen any Biblical reason to believe that regeneration and moudling of a person via the Holy Spirit would not include both a changing of a person by God that may not be consciously understood by a person and also a conscious component, as in 'the gospel now makes sense.'

    Thanks, Russ. A helpful explanation for a difficult topic.

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  15. Thanks, Jeff.

    I definitely do not claim it as 'gospel' so to speak, although related to the gospel.

    Some within free will/incompatibilist thinking could view God as merely persuading a person with the gospel offer, knowing with foreknowledge what it takes to have a person believe and be born again.

    Problems:

    Romans 1-3 discusses the corrupt nature of humanity and inability and unwillingness to follow God.

    Also, as noted many times on my blogs the New Testament states God chooses and predestines who shall believe.

    Conclusion

    A free will/incompatibilist view of salvation is theologically weak.

    Some within Reformed theology may object to me not having a clearer distinction between regeneration, faith and belief.

    Problems:

    If God merely changes an unbeliever into a believer not involving the the human will with hard determinism, there is absolutely no human will accepting salvation. This would seem incorrect in light of the fact the unbelievers are told to believe and repent and that persons continue to sin by choice at times, even as Christians.

    Conclusion

    Regeneration includes God moulding a person and conversion is an aspect of regeneration.

    So we could have

    Regeneration 1 (God's choice and act of conditioning a person)
    Regeneration 2 (Conversion: God's conditioning leads to a change of the human will)

    Salvation remains completely an act of God alone.

    One regeneration with two aspects.

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  16. Russ,

    Although it may not be strictly and directly related, it reminds me of John 3:8, "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Though that verse may be talking about us not knowing which persons will come to Christ and be saved (i.e., be regenerated), I'm guessing that it may also be addressing the mystery regarding how the Holy Spirit works.

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  17. Russ said I just viewed District 9 tonight with Saint Chucklins and it was reasonably good.

    I viewed the preview of 'Superman Batman Public Enemies' and it looked interesting.


    I did not like the batman/superman movie, it was a real disappointment.

    I liked district 9, the main character of that movie will be in the remake of the (A TEAM) he will be playing, howling mad Murdock. and UFC fighter, Rampage Jackson will be playing B.A. in the movie. Rick b

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  18. Thanks for the information, Rick.

    It will be difficult for persons to adequately replace the original A-Team characters.

    It would have been better to make a film with the original characters and a replacement for George Peppard.

    I will try to remain open-minded on the subject but frankly I reason the A-Team film will be an artistic mistake.

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  19. I did not like the batman/superman movie, it was a real disappointment.

    WHAATTT??!! BLASPHEMY!!!

    Alright, Rick, it's ON!!!


    (just kidding...LOL)

    Oops, sorry, I was thinking it was Friday night. Guess I need to save my smart-alack remarks till then.

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  20. Here we have been talking about Oral Roberts University and
    'WHAATTT??!! BLASPHEMY!!!' only comes up in the context of a cartoon.;);>

    You know what Jeff, Friday would be a good night for smart*** as there will be a small party here and you can add to the humour by posting some Halloween based theological material.

    Or perhaps you have your own party to attend.

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  21. I'm watching a DVD on Islam tonight. I learned two interesting things:

    - Islam teaches that Jesus will return in the clouds and land on the roof of a mosque. Then they will bring a ladder so he can get down from the roof. Now, if He can descend from the clouds, why would he need a ladder??

    - According to one Islamic tradition, Muhammad had so much power in him, that he would sleep with all 30 of his wives in one night. And yet, at the same time, he was so noble and so holy, that all night, he would pray to God! Anybody see anything wrong with this picture?

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  22. Here we have been talking about Oral Roberts University and
    'WHAATTT??!! BLASPHEMY!!!' only comes up in the context of a cartoon.;);>


    LOL!

    You know what Jeff, Friday would be a good night for smart*** as there will be a small party here and you can add to the humour by posting some Halloween based theological material.

    Or perhaps you have your own party to attend.


    There is an event at church Friday night called "Trunk or Treat," but I probably won't go, since I will have a full day on Saturday, and because everyone is supposed to dress up in Western outfits, and I don't have any Western outfits (being from Miami, I'm not used to wearing blue jeans, cowboy boots and cowboy hats). And Sat. I will be attending another 4-hour class (on Islam), and Sat. night I will be handing out Halloween Gospel Tract packs (with candy).

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  23. 'Sat. night I will be handing out Halloween Gospel Tract packs (with candy).'

    Well done.

    I dare you to dress up like Dr. Phibes...

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  24. I dare you to dress up like Dr. Phibes...

    Wasn't familiar with that, so had to look it up on Wikipedia:
    "The Abominable Dr. Phibes is a 1971 horror film starring Vincent Price."

    The image, here, looks pretty disgusting.

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  25. One night in the 1980s twin stations BCTV Vancouver and Chek- TV Victoria decided to each play one of the Phibes movies in sequence. So as a teen I watched:

    The Abominable Dr. Phibes (1971) and then Dr. Phibes Rises Again (1972).

    In the 1990s I watched at least one of the films with Sir Chucklins.

    They have artistic merit but are disturbing.

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  26. I agree with you! Sydney is a beautiful place.

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  27. From WebProNews.com:

    Yahoo has officially shut down Geocities.The company has said that it did not count the property among its priorities, so it is simply getting rid of it. Yahoo has shut down about 20 services in less than a year.

    Earlier this year, MSN partnered with WetPaint to allow people to create "fansites". After Yahoo's announcement, Wetpaint took the opportunity to announce a " bailout plan for foreclosed GeoCities properties," which it called the "GeoCities Asset Recovery Plan (GARP)."As it shuts down GeoCities, Yahoo itself is now plugging its own $4.99-a-month Web hosting service.

    Yahoo's way of going about it has been widely questioned. According to Compete data, GeoCities has still been seeing over 10 million unique monthly visitors as recently as last month. Why would Yahoo want to just shut that down?

    "Then there's the fact that Google, not Yahoo, appears to be responsible for the lion's share of GeoCities referrals, sending about 31.45 percent of the site's traffic its way," noted Doug Caverly upon Yahoo's original announcement. "Yahoo's only behind of 16.89 percent of all GeoCities visits. So by closing GeoCities, for which it paid $3.6 billion in 1999, Yahoo seems to be turning its back on a large amount of traffic. Moreover, it's turning down free traffic from its biggest competitor."

    "Carol Bartz may be trying to get Yahoo's costs under control, but it looks like sticking a 'for sale' sign on GeoCities would be at least one preferable option compared to a closure," he added.

    It seems unwise from a business perspective, but what about the users? Does Yahoo have an obligation to its users who may have spent years using their GeoCities site only to have it pulled from the web? Should Yahoo provide a forwarding web address for GeoCities users? After all, it was the GeoCities users that built their sites, promoted them and put up with sometimes annoying ads. A simple forwarding of their GeoCities url to their new home would be appreciated!

    MySpace isn't exactly at the peak of its popularity, but there are still tons of people who use it. What if they just pulled everything? What if Google bought Facebook and decided to kill it? What if your Tweets vanished? Sure these things seem unlikely now because these services are still fresh. Well, GeoCities was once the "it" thing too. Granted, most GeoCities sites I have seen are not much to look at now, but that doesn't mean people aren't getting use out of them. They're obviously getting page views.

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  28. Thanks, Aline.

    I appreciate the information, Jeff.

    Hopefully and likely, Blogger is safe for now with Google.

    If Blogger shut down, I would purchase a couple of domains I suppose.

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  29. I think televangelist is interesting ^_^ I would love to witness it ^_^ hopefully if it pushes through, we could get a chance of viewing it too ^_^

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  30. You would love 'Ecoturismo'. I have already done and it is great!! It makes you feel more alive! ;)

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  31. lol! Sounds like the perfect mission field for you Russ. It seems to me like they need some tips and reminders in some Godly values as well as some good ol Bible doctrine teaching over there on.. let's say.. repentance maybe.

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  32. Hmm.

    Tammy, you are correct they need their house cleaned up and thekingpin should do it.;)

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  33. What a 'wild' Halloween party. I had two Dos Equis, and they were spaced out in time, and we played NFS Carbon and watched The Last Man on Earth (1964 film) with Vincent Price. We also ate Greek Pizza.

    Hmm, someone invited me to a party for next Friday...

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  34. Glad you enjoyed the posts from my blog.

    I'm atheist ... not belive in the existence of God, but respect people beliefs.

    In my blog I try to convey my way of life and my opinions.

    By the description I saw on your profile that you are a studious person.
    I will follow your blog, it sounded interesting.

    Also hope you have a nice Sunday in his hometown.
    Radig Hanna.

    "EU QUERO!"
    http://radigehanna.blogspot.com/

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