Monte Carlo (Google Images)
A. Flat Bible
Flat Bible was originally discussed as a topic Monday, September 24, 2007
I will add material to this section of this month's post.
Progressive revelation is defined as the understanding that God's self-disclosure is in progression from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 96). Therefore the New Testament offers a more complete revelation from a Christian perspective. The Old Testament is to be understood in light of the fuller teaching of the New Testament. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 96).
Someone once asked me in person about progressive revelation and we had a discussion on Facebook. This is the revised answer I sent:
At Columbia Bible College (Mennonite) and Canadian Baptist Seminary, I was taught that the Bible is not flat, as there is progressive revelation which ended in the apostolic age. Therefore there is no need or place for Islam, Latter-Day Saints, or other continuing the Christian faith.
Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. (Hebrews 12: 24). Hughes describes it as a better covenant (Hebrews 8: 6) as the old one was inadequate not permanent. Hughes (1977)(1990: 551). The law in particular was only a shadow of good things to come. (Hebrews 10). The law cannot save as discussed in Romans 4, but persons are saved through righteousness of faith fulfilled in Christ. Galatians 2 mentions the folly of following the law as we now have Christ. In the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 4-6, Jesus explains the deeper spiritual meanings of the law. The new covenant provided atonement that was 'fully adequate and everlasting in its efficacy'. Hughes (1977)(1990: 551). Christ provides 'the blood of the eternal covenant (Hebrews 13: 20)'.
Hughes (1977)(1990: 551).
The Old Testament/Hebrew Bible is as valid as the New Testament, but it is often stated that one must interpret the Old Testament through the New Testament. I can agree with this concept since there is progressive revelation, but the Old Testament must be read in context, or else one risks reading the New Testament into the Old Testament. Christianity explains that the New Testament revelation of Christ/apostles does not contradict the previous revelation and instead adds to it explaining the plan of God. Islam is rejected for reasons such as the denial of key doctrines about Christ, including his deity, and the Latter-Day Saints theology is rejected for reasons such as holding to polytheism which is against Scriptural teaching. (Isaiah 43, 44, 45). There are various reasons why these other religions are rejected as well, but I mention those key points. If my concentration academically was more focused on the Hebrew Bible, I would have no problem with studying Hebrew scholars for the original context as this should be done, but I reason the New Testament can shed light on many of the older teachings.
In the Westminster Confession, Chapter XIX points out that the moral law does bind forever, even though true believers be not under law as a covenant of works. Westminster Confession (Chapter XIX). The new covenant does not contain the old covenant ceremonial laws but does contain the spirit of the same moral law. So, the same basic moral law is repeated.
GRENZ, STANLEY J., DAVID GURETZKI AND CHERITH FEE NORDLING (1999) Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms, Downers Grove, Ill., InterVarsity Press.
HUGHES, PHILIP. (1977)(1990) A Commentary On The Epistle To The Hebrews, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH (1646).
B. Aliens
In regard to a recent friendly discussion, the following is a philosophical difficulty with replacing the Biblical God or Deistic God with speculation that aliens created human beings and by default avoiding dealing with the issue of a primary cause.
Aliens existing in the physical universe of matter would likely be physical beings and would be finite. In philosophical terms a secondary cause when they commit actions.
Even if aliens from some hyper-speculative theory did create human beings, the aliens as a secondary cause would have created human beings also physical beings of finite matter, a secondary cause when they commit actions.
Therefore there would still be the need for an infinite, non-matter/non-material, primary first cause that existed prior to the beginning of finite time and matter in order to avoid a vicious regress in the process of creating the aliens.
Further:
In the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Simon Blackburn discusses ‘infinite regress’ and mentions that this occurs in a vicious way whenever a problem tries to solve itself and yet remains with the same problem it had previously. A vicious regress is an infinite regress that does not solve its own problem, while a benign regress is an infinite regress that does not fail to solve its own problem. Blackburn writes that there is frequently room for debate on what is a vicious regress or benign regress.
In The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, William Tolhurst writes that a vicious regress is in some way unacceptable as it would include an infinite series of items dependent on prior items. A vicious regress may be impossible to hold to philosophically, or it may be inconsistent. From the same volume, Raymond D. Bradley cautions that the mere existence of an infinite series is not the same as infinite regression, and is not philosophically objectionable. His first example is that every natural number (a positive integer, 1,2,3,4, …, or a non-negative integer, 0,1,2,3,4,…) has a successor that is a natural number. Bradley writes that it would not be illogical to state that each free act of consequence is a result of an act of free choice. Bradley thinks that trying to answer infinite regress by bringing in the idea of the theist’s God makes no sense.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford, University, Press.
BRADLEY, RAYMOND D. (1996) ‘Infinite Regress Argument’, in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
TOLHURST, WILLIAM (1996) 'Vicious Regress', in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
C. Atom
The smallest part of an element that can exist and consists of small dense nucleus of protons and neutrons surrounded by electrons. The number of electrons equals the number of protons so the overall charge is stated to be zero. Electrons orbit around the nucleus. (61).
Oxford Dictionary of Science, (2010), Sixth Edition, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
Would not an Atom and Eve cult be weird?
D. Video
Shared this one previously.
The commercial overlooks the fact many world religions have such different views on the nature of God, that they could not reasonably be expecting the same final ultimate spiritual being. Christianity is not expecting another teacher to surpass Christ, as God's work in Christ will not be surpassed.
The late Avatar Adi Da Samraj claimed to be the supremely great spiritual being. This is a false claim.
Shared this one previously.
The commercial overlooks the fact many world religions have such different views on the nature of God, that they could not reasonably be expecting the same final ultimate spiritual being. Christianity is not expecting another teacher to surpass Christ, as God's work in Christ will not be surpassed.
The late Avatar Adi Da Samraj claimed to be the supremely great spiritual being. This is a false claim.
E. Jets
The new Winnipeg Jets main logo along with the main logos of the other six Canadian teams. Rumours are consistent in the media in Canada and the United States that Quebec City will be the next NHL franchise by relocation whenever that occurs, meaning Canada would have eight teams once again, its all-time high. Perhaps the Canucks can find a new team playoff time to meltdown against in the clutch. Yes, I am glad I am a Manchester United supporter.
F. Netlog and WAYN
Friends asked me to join each site, but so far I have found some of each site's membership questionable. On WAYN I have already been dealing with a Russian scammer, although she is using some newer techniques that I have not come across in years past with other scammers and now this morning via someone on Netlog here is this classic junk from 'Sweet Heart'. Enjoy.
Sites that mention:
Romancescam.com/Sweet Heart
Anti-scam/Sweet Heart
'Dear Sweet Heart
Greetings to you my dear, I am writing to you with a heart full of tears and sadness, but first I have to say compliments of the season and I'll be waiting for my email in response to my request to you, please tell me more about your car and intenssion to me if you agree to be intimate with me, My name is Miss Favour Siako i am 24 years old, but age does not matter in a real relationship, I am the only surviving daughter of my late father (Dr. Siako Adams) of Liberia, in the small town of Grand Bassa, am 5. 8tall 173cm, but I am currently residing in Dakar Senegal under asylum as a refugee, I'm a sophomore at the University of Liberia studying mass communication before the war started in my country until the death of my late father Dr S. Adams, my father was the director general of Siako Manufacturing and he was the personal advice to the former head of State ( former President of Liberia Charles Taylor) before the rebels attacked our house one early morning and killed my mom and dad in cold blood. I'm open minded girl easy, safe, hard working and caring, always keep my word. looking for someone who is honest, as I wrote in my profile to marry, no matter where it comes from and no matter their religion back tail.
I am single never married and active and I like everything he does, for example, easy and comfortable life, go to the beach, cooking, watching TV, like sports football, etc, shopping, reading newspapers and novels, walk.pls after long time I would have liked to chat with u but in this field are not allowed to go out often.
I have no relative who can now go to all my relatives ran away in the midst of war, the only person I have now is the Rev. Danny King, who is the pastor of Christ (for all Churches) here in the Camp been good to me since I got here, but I'm not living with him rather i am leaving in the women's hostel because the camp have two hostels one for men and another for women. And I use to contact you via computer Reverend Danny King here in the camp i sent and received, also here is the Reverend pastor Danny King phone number (+221-76-33-86-879) for easier to hear your voice, When you call tell the reverend pastor Danny King wants to speak to Miss Favour Siako He sent for me,
As a refugee here I have no right or privilege to any thing be it money or whatever because it is against the law of this country.I want to go back to my studies because i only attended my first year before the incident that traggic lead to my being in this situation now took place.Please hear this, I have my late father's account and death certificate here with me I'll send you the letter because when he was alive he deposited some amount of money a leading financial company in which he used my name, Favour and family members, the amount involved is (Certificate of Deposit) to (U.S. $ 4m) four million U.S. dollars deposited by my late father in the bank I'm the next of kin.
So I would like to help me transfer this money to their care and from it you can send some money for me to get my traveling documents and air ticket to come to meet with you.I kept this secret to people in camp here the only person who knows about it is the Reverend because he is like a father to me. So in the light of above i will like you to keep you and not tell anyone for fear I have lost my life and the money if people gets to know.
Remember i am giving all this information due to trust and love i deposited on you.I like honest and understanding people, truthful and a man of vision, truth and working hard.
The mean time I would like you to answer me as I told you I have much to say .. If you accept and is willing to help i connect my picture here, please kindly attach your recent photo and details to contact you to answer me.
Have a nice day and think you hear me.Awaiting
Thank you my dear and take good care of himself.
A lovely lady Favour yours'
Progressive revelation is defined as the understanding that God's self-disclosure is in progression from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 96). Therefore the New Testament offers a more complete revelation from a Christian perspective. The Old Testament is to be understood in light of the fuller teaching of the New Testament. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 96).
ReplyDeleteNice explanation. Some have asked, 'Why do we need the Old Testament?'
At Columbia Bible College (Mennonite) and Canadian Baptist Seminary, I was taught that the Bible is not flat...
And in school, we are taught that the Earth is not flat. Yet, the Flat Earth Society is still around... ; )
Therefore there is no need or place for Islam...
Well said. My cousin still remembers when they had Bible reading and prayer in public schools here in the U.S. Now these things are, generally speaking, no longer allowed. Yet, they are teaching Islam in a positive light. For example, in April 2004, the Aga Khan Foundation (AKF) and UT-Austin finalized a grant proposal that created the partnership that became known as the Muslim Histories and Cultures Program (MHC). MHC recruited and directly trained 80 teachers affecting approximately 15,150 students of World History and World Geography in ten key Texas districts during the two sessions conducted in 2005 and 2006. The purpose is two-fold 1) to fulfill Governor Rick Perry's desire to better educate Texas teachers on Muslim topics and 2) to train teachers to use a cultural lens approach to understanding other cultures. Governor Perry was instrumental in getting this program off the ground. Official curriculum on Islam for Texas schools, developed by the MHC, makes sure to point out that, regarding the Qur'an, “believers point to this very perfection of the text as the proof of the prophethood of Muhammad,” and that “for many, the notion that the Qur’an is inimitable, that is, no human could possibly have produced anything so perfect, proves that it had to be God who revealed this message to Muhammad.” It also states: “The religion that the Prophet Muhammad preached provided his followers an ethical and moral vision for leading a life of righteousness.”
Now, would any public school in the West today say such a thing about the Bible?
Jeff, thank you for the Qur'an information.
ReplyDeleteYour post seems to beg for a definition of "revelation". Beginning at Acts 16:16, there is the note on the slave girl who has a spirit of divination. This sort of spirit reveals information and, as we can see from the text, once the spirit is gone the power to reveal is gone with it. What is the scope of "revelation"?
ReplyDeleteJeff, when I was in school (1960's) they taught us that the Church's official doctrine was that the earth was flat. Later I found out that Washington Irving made up the flat earth theory - along with a lot of other nonsense - and this became the source for our history books!
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that the Flat Earth society is composed of atheists who are bored.
Carl Henry provides a good definition of Special Revelation in the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, as opposed to General Revelation. He states it is the disclosure of what was previously unknown. It is God's communication to humankind of divine truth and is a manifestation of the will of God. The Word of God has been incarnated in Christ. Henry (1996: 946).
ReplyDeleteCheers, Looney.
Amusing this post is now on to the topic of 'flat earth'.;)
ReplyDeleteLooney,
ReplyDeleteYeah, even some today will claim that 'Flat-Earthers' get their beliefs from the Bible, or that the Bible is erroneous since it talks about the 'four corners of the Earth.' Yet, even today we use words like "sunset," "sunrise," or references to sun and stars moving, in spite of hundreds of years of "knowing better."
Yet, the Bible does say things like, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22). (The Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere"---only for "circle.")
Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. I read that he was bed-ridden during a serious illness and asked his son to read a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalms 8:8. Upon his recovery, Maury took God at his word and went looking for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities.
In various passages, the Bible describes a hydrologic cycle, the process by which clouds are formed, rain is produced and ground water is replenished. Science made the same discovery in the 1600s, long after the Bible passages were written.
ReplyDelete"He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." (Job 26:8)
"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind." (Job 36:27-28)
"The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again." (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7)
The Bible stated that the stars cannot be counted. For centuries, scientists and astronomers thought they could count the precise number of stars in the universe. Brahe, for example, said there were 777. Kepler claimed the total was 1,005. Hipparchus said there were 1,022 stars. Ptolemy raised the number to 1,056. Eventually, scientists, including Galileo, concluded that the stars could not be numbered, just as the Bible had always claimed:
ReplyDelete"I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore." (Jeremiah 33:22)
"He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars--if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." (Genesis 15:5)
Good lesson Jeff. The Scripture is not myth but does use both plain literal and figurative literal language.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible, and probably a lot of other historical documents, contain knowledge that was ignored by the ruling elites for a long time. Even though the purpose of the Bible is not to be a science text, it still follows that the ancients knew more than we generally give them credit for.
ReplyDeleteReasonable.
ReplyDeleteAs we discussed last night many of the ancients had expertise in multi-disciplines.
On the other hand, today those disciplines have more knowledge within. Accumulated years of knowledge being one major reason. So perhaps today academics often need to be more specialized.
Progressive revelation makes a lot of sense and thanks for presenting a short version on your blog.
ReplyDelete-Wonders of Theology-
Thanks for the info on aliens, everything needs a first cause, in fact if alien beings exist in this universe they need a cause, a first cause, GOD
ReplyDelete-U.F.O.-
Mr. Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThanks for the support. I agree the first cause is God.
Aloha from Waikiki;
ReplyDeleteComfort Spiral
> < } } ( ° >
><}}(°>
Cloudia,
ReplyDeleteI noticed today online Maple Ridge and Honolulu are both at 30 degrees C.
I don't need Hawaii today.;) But will soon.
Wow Kingpin, you seem to get your share of scammers.
ReplyDeletePrince William
Duke of Cambridge
'Wow Kingpin, you seem to get your share of scammers.
ReplyDeletePrince William
Duke of Cambridge'
I wish I had more upper crust friends like you...
I heard you guys got hit with a pretty big earthquake, Did it effect you?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Rick.
ReplyDeleteYou gave the news to me.
I have not felt it, neither did my brother (visiting) or Mom. But I see on the news it is between 6.4 to 6.7. No tsunami warnings. It hit Vancouver Island.
I did not feel the earthquake at all. I was eating lunch with family at a Chinese restaurant in Surrey at the time.
ReplyDeleteNice Jets logo. I hope the team does well.
I felt nothing. I think the Jets will be a much better run operation this time.
ReplyDeletePossible blog link trade (I briefly met him, his wife and his daughter when they visited a church I used to attend, and he gave a presentation):
ReplyDeleteWorldView Journal
Thanks, Jeff.
ReplyDeleteHello Dr. Russ Murray. Interesting article. Below are some theories about who wrote Hebrews.
ReplyDeleteThe Epistle to the Hebrews is the biggest problem of authorship of the New Testament. In fact, the question about the authorship of Hebrews is ancient, dating to the third century.
The ecclesiastical writer Caius did not consider Hebrews as written by Paul. "Origen" claimed that, "if some church considers this epistle from Paul, be praised for it, but only G-d knows who really wrote this letter."
Eusebius stated that Clement of Alexandria claimed that this epistle was written by Paul in Hebrew, and translated into Greek by Luke.
Already Tertullian ascribed the authorship to Barnabas.
Apollo said to have been a suggestion of Martin Luther.
However, the only certainty is that the author was not immediate disciple of Christ (Hebrews 2:3). He was Jewish, used the first person plural to refer to his Jewish audience. He was a friend of Timothy and belonged to the pauline circle (Hebrews 13:23). Moreover, he was well versed in the Old Testament, using the Greek version of the Septuagint (LXX).
Thank you, Isha, helpful ( as usual).
ReplyDeleteNotes from Hughes in regard to Authorship:
Absence of solid testimony, internal and external from firm traditions means authorship of Hebrews is a riddle without solution. (p.19)
Hebrews was considered authentic New Testament first century document within the epistle of Clement of Rome to the Corinthians at the close of the first C. (p.19)
Still in the following two centuries Hebrews was not used or acknowledged it the Western Church. (p. 19). There were some doubts concerning its apostolic origin. (p. 19).
By the fourth century the book had general acceptance. (p. 20).
Notes from Gerald F. Hawthorne: Hebrews, in The International Bible Commentary (1986).
The Western Church did not recognize Hebrews as canonical until late in the fourth century. (p. 1500).
There was a tradition in the Eastern Church as of 185 A.D. that attributed Hebrews to the Apostle Paul. (p. 1500).
The style of Hebrews is not Pauline. (p. 1500).
Hebrews is in the canon based on intrinsic worth. (p. 1501).
Regarding Hebrews, I would claim that the manner in which the writer uses the old testament to support new testament ideas is pure Paul, in the absence of any other examples comparable examples. That isn't conclusive by any means, but the claim that the "style" isn't Pauline strikes me as something that could be used to challenge any document. After all, this is the first comment that I have made that used the words "Hebrews", "Pauline", and "style", thus, I cannot possible be Looney, per the "style" argument!
ReplyDeleteWell, according to Hawthorne, the Eastern Church agreed with you in 185 A.D., however much of scholarship does not. I think you make a reasonable point, the style may be different but it is a very theological book like Romans and Paul was a theologian.
ReplyDeleteSomething to ponder on...
Cheers.
The last I checked, scholars were disputing the authorship of every book of the Bible - OT and NT.
ReplyDeleteYes.
ReplyDeleteI respect good scholarship and a certain level of objectivity. This can include the personal use of moderate liberals which I have quoted on my blogs. However, I usually quote moderate conservatives. I do not like scholarship with a radical liberal agenda that desires to disprove the Bible by discrediting authorship.
I got a cookie error, so I'm posting my comment again.
ReplyDeleteThe following comment is somewhat off-topic, but that has never stopped me before.
My Pastor is a KJV-only person, and the Pastor of the previous church I attended was also
KJV-only.
The KJV is the first Bible I ever read cover-to-cover. I started reading it in 5th or 6th grade on
my own at home. It confused me when it talked about "divers places." I didn't know why the Bible was talking about SCUBA divers. Many years later, I learned that was the Early Modern English spelling
for "diverse."
The KJV is still the most poetic version, IMO. I used to use the KJV for memorizing verses. But other versions sometimes convey the meaning of some verses better than the KJV does. And, if you quote some of the verses from the KJV to some people today, they won't understand what you're saying. It's almost like you're
talking in a foreign language---and, in some respects, you are, because we no longer write or talk in Early
Modern English (which was used from late 1400 till about 1650).
So, one problem with the KJV is that it uses old language that we no longer use today, and words
that mean something different today. There are many words in the KJV today that do not convey the
meaning to the modern reader that the original writers intended to express. When the KJV came out
in 1611, it was sixteenth century English at its best. Through the years many words and expressions
have become ambiguous or misleading. So it is not the best study Bible for me.
(cont.)
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteIn I Samuel 30:31 the KJV says, “Where David himself and his men were wont to haunt.” Five times
the KJV uses the expression, “Fetch a compass” (examples: II Sam. 5:23; Acts 28:13). In Matt. 27:44 it says, “They cast the same in his teeth.” In Mark 9:18 the KJV says, “And pineth away.” In Gal. 4:24 it says, “Which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.” In James 1:21 we are told to “lay apart all filthiness
and superfluity of naughtiness.”
The reader will never know what these obsolete expressions mean unless he looks them up in another source. The NIV or the NASB makes them all simple enough so a child can understand them.
Those who state that the KJV is the 'only' acceptable version of the Bible apparently ignore the fact that there are many translations in different languages around the world other than in English. If the KJV
is the only acceptable version, then we need to burn all those translations in other languages that were translated by missionaries, etc., and let all those other people who don't speak English go without a Bible in their own language. Not to mention that Jesus did not speak King James English.
Besides the KJV, I have also read, from cover-to-cover, the Living Bible and the Good News Bible. I also own a NKJV Bible; a Guideposts Parallel Bible with the KJV, Modern Language Bible, Living Bible, and RSV in parallel columns; a Parallel New Testament in Greek and English containing the NIV and KJV; Eerdman's Handbook
to the Bible, The New Testament and Wycliffe Bible Commentary Parallel Edition, KJV; the Oxford Companion to the Bible; the Portable Seminary; The Gospel of Luke (an Exposition by
Charles R. Erdman); John: A Self-Study Guide (by Irving L. Jensen); Daniel (a study booklet by Thru the Bible Radio); The Believer's Armor Part 2 (booklet by John MacArthur); Tyndale New Testament Commentaries (all
four books: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John); Matthew Henry's Commentary in one Volume; the New Compact Bible Dictionary; and Cruden's Complete Concordance. Plus many books on cults, other religions, missionaries,
martyrs, devotionals, etc.
I currently use the KJV for reading the Psalms at home, the KJV Ryrie Study Bible to bring to
church with me, and the NIV Study Bible for reading and studying the Bible in general. Because it's a Study Bible, any so-called "missing" parts or "altered" parts in the NIV are explained and listed in the footnotes, which I check often, so that is no problem for me.
Thanks for the lesson, Mr. Jenkins.
ReplyDeleteYes, the KJV is a fine translated English version of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament, but it is not an inspired version in itself, nor is any version inspired by God in a way that the Scriptures (original autographs) were inspired.
The photos of yourself along the right side look good.
ReplyDeleteYes, thanks to apnea treatment and working out, still. Thank God.
ReplyDeleteCheers