Boundless
Cited
'Host: Lisa Anderson
GUESTS: Candice Watters
[3:22] - He's much older than she. He keeps asking her to do things with his friends. She's not interested, but doesn't want to hurt his feelings. Is there a way to let him down kindly, but once and for all? Candice Watters offers advice.'
End Citations
I am not looking for conflict here, I am reviewing in an academic context and seeking truth, not in perfect objectivity but seeking objectivity.
After emailing Focus on the Family, I was placed on their email list and it links to this interesting site and program. As well, I have emailed both the host and guest counsellor separately on this issue in general terms.
I admit, I reason I can learn from the site and program.
As with other books and audio I have commented on there is agreement and disagreement.
I very much agree with the host and guest counsellor that a person not interested in a relationship, a relationship of any kind, should not be further pursued.
In the story presented, the man should back off permanently.
I also agree with the host that women should not show mixed signals to men that have showed interest in them.
A rejection, if necessary, should be final and one should not dabble with the person rejected in thought and action.
Even if in secret.
If in Christ, a rejection was made in haste and there is rejection remorse still months and years later, then a prayerful reconsideration of the rejection may need to take place
Perhaps repentance.
All Christians, including myself need to repent at times.
It should be no surprise that some in Christ need to repent in the area of romantic interest, at times, in light of the inner and external spiritual darkness associated with romantic love.
No surprise at all...
The Boundless guest counsellor was very annoyed that men twenty years older would even show interest in younger women.
(By the way, in contrast, in all the Christian counselling I took at Columbia Bible College, I was taught that the counsellor should remain rather objective and non-emotional when counselling.)
It can be deduced this would be the case in every instance with the guest counsellor's view, not just the case discussed where the man seemingly was not accepting rejection.
The guest counsellor stated this incident placed her almost over the edge.
The guest counsellor stated the act by the man was creepy.
Many readers from a Western context would connect the act with the man and view him also as creepy.
A creep.
Is a single man twenty years older necessarily committing a creepy act by pursuing someone younger that is a legal adult and of child-bearing age? (1 Corinthians 7, Matthew 5).
Is he a creep?
Where is the evidence?
(She just assumes--ass u me, as was taught to me by my trainer with my first insurance job.)
Where does the Scripture state this view?
Or is this more an American, North American and Western philosophical and cultural construct?
The guest counsellor view seemed at least to some degree:
Unbiblical
Unbalanced
An overreaction
The pre-set bias of at least some of the Focus On the Family counsellors and psychologists is demonstrated here.
By my deduction and reasoning, a typical American Evangelical perhaps fundamentalistic, Focus psychologist would state in regard to a younger woman in a potential relationship to a man 10+ years older, the problem would be a lack of similar relationship experience, interests and life goals.
Even if there was mutual spiritual, intellectual and romantic attraction.
Therefore, the relationship should not be considered.
However, if I could object with the counter...
My relationship experience is limited and therefore similar to someone much younger, and I may have similar interests and life goals as someone younger.
For example, I still want to be married with a family in a Biblical model. God willing.
Therefore, the relationship should be considered, where there is mutual spiritual, intellectual and romantic attraction.
I reason this would be largely ignored by Focus professionals, due to pre-set bias and views and could be countered with...
Anyone, 35 years of age+ that does not have significant relationship experience must be significantly psychological, perhaps spiritually, flawed.
(This may be alluded to and not clearly stated.)
The person under review needs counselling.
(By the way, I have friends in counselling and psychology and no one that knows me well has seriously criticized my views.)
(It is only some rare outsiders that do.)
Therefore, the relationship should not be considered.
But I would counter...
This a mere assumption.
The post-Christian era is among us.
Christianity and the Church in decline.
Numbers of Christians low, especially in BC and Canada.
The Evangelical church has lost its ways theologically in many cases.
The number of available committed, theological Christians of any age is significantly limited.
Biblical Christians should consider more reasonable, Biblical options.
Therefore, the relationship should not be rejected as a possibility due to lack of relationship experience of the older man.
Now, I do not want to use an accident fallacy.
Generally most younger women will not be attracted to older men.
I hold to:
'WOTT'
Waste Of Time Theory
In other words, I do not believe in wasting my time pursuing any kind of relationship where the other does not show significant mutual interest.
Interestingly, I just connected again with a Christian friend I had not seen since 1986 and so I also reason that situations can change over time.
Business Insider October 23 2015
Cited
'9 ways to start a conversation with absolutely anyone'
Cited
'Ask a hypothetical question. These can be great conversation starters, but try to tie them into something happening at the event or in current events to avoid seeming too random. You might say something like, "I just saw this movie where all the laws were revoked for one day. What would you do if there were no laws for a day?"'
Seriously?
A philosophical question in regard to law and ethics?
We might as well just do the tie in to the free will and determinism debate as icebreaker...
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ReplyDeleteAre you indicating that someone needs meds?
ReplyDeleteHOW I GET READY FOR WORK IN THE MORNING
ReplyDeleteFirst, I wake up. Usually around the crack of noon.
Then, it's time for a good, hearty breakfast. M&M's will do.
Then, I need to relax my mind to prepare for the day. 45 min. of Facebook games usually does the trick.
Then, I work out for 30 min. to prepare the body.
After that, I'm tired, so I take a 30-min. nap.
Then I shower, brush my teeth, shave, gargle, find clothes to wear, get dressed, brush my hair, and about 50 other things.
By that time, it's too late to go to work, so I call in sick.
Since I'm not going to work, I go back to bed. It's been a rough morning.
After a 3-hour nap, it's time to relax. So I play more Facebook games.
After that, I'm tired, so I relax the rest of the day. I'll need my strength in order to face another rough day tomorrow.
That will work...
ReplyDeleteThanks, JJ.
Striving with One Mind
ReplyDeleteBelievers disagree so much with each other. The Bible warns against strong drink, does that cover beer? We are called to repent and believe, does that mean repent before you believe, or as you turn to Christ see how he gives all you need, so as you turn to him the old idols fall away? Do we really still think that Jesus must come back before we should work for a better world? It used to be on the short list of the essentials for the Christian faith!
Now “role of women” divides us. Are some of those passages really in the Bible or are they later add ons? If deacons don’t rule in the church anyway, why can’t women lead us in service? Not to mention reading Scripture in worship?
How faith and obedience, law and grace, work together seems the hardest. The great “second blessing” is my life has been the “sonship” of Jack Miller, with its other name of “living in grace” of Paul Kooistra. When I hear a sermon that doesn’t say how much the Lord loves us so much that he gave his beloved son to die for us—well then, I’m deeply disappointed and even hurt. Why doesn’t that preacher see things the same way I do? He must be OK, presbytery thinks so, but how can he think that way? Why are all those people so content?
They’re not leaning forward eagerly the way I do when I hear about Jesus, but they came to church, didn’t they? But how can it make sense to me to be here? Maybe now and then, if I can get fed somewhere else in between?
ReplyDeleteVery similar to me is how the gospel only makes sense when you understand it within its culture. My problem is that I’m not a great listener, I like to talk too much. I have to keep coaching myself so that I ask people, “so how are you doing?” Once I get started it’s a delight to relate to people, to interact with them, to actually have a conversation with them—but it’s not easy to get going. So when I heard Harvie Conn explain anything “cross-cultural” it was so helpful to me. When Meredith Kline pulled me into the Hittite culture and showed me how the Lord himself was a listener and talked to his own people against that background—was that exciting!
ReplyDeleteJohn Leonard’s Get Real is all about listening while you talk to others about Jesus, just an amazing book. Then there are the people in the Christian counseling world, Jay Adams to David Powlison and Ed Welch to Mike Emlet. Not only do they listen, but they actually know how to ask the right questions so what they hear is worth listening to! All that was in the air we breathed in the Westminster Seminary where I worked. Cross-cultural Harvie, counseling Jay, listening Bible study with Ed Clowney, Ray Dillard, Moises Silva, Al Groves all the way to Doug Green and Mike Kelly. If you understand people today by listening, try listening way back then in the Old Testament.
ReplyDeleteAll that has been vanishing, and I struggle to understand. But I'm trying. I know people can give too much attention to the culture, so much so that all the truth there gets relativized away. That’s not a theoretical danger, it happens all the time. So in order for me to value anti-culture people, I can value with them that no matter what the Bible is always truly God's word, and that’s well worth doing. Not that I think it would be a good idea for most people to get their training with them, but I can imagine some would. I hate it that people got fired because they weren’t close enough, but I try to understand.
ReplyDeleteHow should I listen to a sermon without Jesus in it? Well, I do know Jesus already, don’t I? If I’ve learned David Powlison’s take on Psalm 119, “keep up your end of the conversation with God,” enjoying my interaction with him all the time, then can’t I do that hearing a sermon without that biblical theology? I doubt that’s the way to do it, but there are people who need to know the basics, laying the foundation to build on later.
ReplyDeleteThose fundies against beer and movies? They sure have their major priorities straight. These days beer makes me sleepy anyway, so who needs it? You can enjoy Jesus together over coffee.
Role of women? If we’re all here to serve the Lord all the time, we can think together about the other six days in the week, and share great stories about our learned daughters. We can keep talking about those hard texts, original or add ons, and read Phil Payne together to figure that out.
ReplyDeleteWouldn’t it be wonderful if we could just agree on everything? With some church history in your head, you know that won’t happen with baptism, with what you say at the Supper, with what collars preachers wear, and we’ve gotten well used to all that. All the rest today, we can deal with that, at least to the extent where it really doesn’t divide us deeply.
ReplyDeleteBut if you put to your mind to it, we all could think of new things where we’re smarter than anyone else. I know from Nehemiah that Sabbath begins at sundown the night before, so why aren’t we having worship then? The Seventh-Day Baptists go too far, but I could see starting a Six and a Half Day Presbyterian Church, but I have other things to do right now, like appreciating all the people who don’t agree with me on everything.
ReplyDeleteI still thinking reminding each other of the gospel is always worth doing, but I know brothers and sisters in the Lord who don’t think so. I’m not eager to get behind an a-cultural seminary, but I appreciate its stand for God’s infallible world, when so many others don’t.
What Paul had to say in Philippians is helping me, in 1: 27-28 and then 2: 1-8:
ReplyDeleteOnly let your manner of life be worthy[ of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel, and not frightened in anything by your opponents.
So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
With one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel!
ReplyDeleteD. Clair Davis
“The greatest of all human delusions is that there is a tangible goal, and not just direction towards an ideal aim. The idea that a goal can be attained perpetually frustrates human beings, who are disappointed at never getting there, never being able to stop.”
ReplyDelete-Stephen Spender, World Within World
“We are never so much disposed to quarrel with others as when we are dissatisfied with ourselves.”
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“How few there are who have courage enough to own their faults, or resolution enough to mend them!”
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Good one, I try to live by that with God's help...
ReplyDelete“A man who won’t die for something is not fit to live.” ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
ReplyDelete“Mistakes are the portals of discovery.” ~James Joyce
ReplyDelete“Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.” ~Bruce Lee
ReplyDelete“Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it.” ~Bruce Lee
ReplyDelete“What screws us up most in life is the picture in our head of how it’s supposed to be.” ~Unknown
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