Regardless of one's views in regards to the West being involved outside of the West...this is sad.
The Greece @ Turkey friendly match, was none to friendly to victims of the recent France terrorist attacks.
Along with booing, whistling and other verbal messages from the Turkish crowd, "Allahu Akbar," was heard, meaning God is great, or God is greater from the Arabic to the English.
My moderate conservative position, religiously and politically is cautious of Western involvement is non-Western affairs. I personally favour a very strong Western military alliance, such as NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization), but more so for defensive purposes and defensive war.
When non-Western nations are interfered with as in via Western military, a rational response from the masses such as democracy is better than different types of dictatorships, therefore, Western influence is good and appreciated, to mould a dictatorship toward democracy, should not necessarily be expected from the masses.
This Western approach although somewhat rational, seems to me to overlook the human and national pride aspect of non-Western peoples.
This corrupted within sinful human nature. (Romans 1-6 in general terms).
Many in the masses will non-rationally, support THEIR tyrant or like, over a Western foreigner.
That being stated, I reason there is no excuse or good rational and ethical reason to support terrorism in any form.
Shame on the Turkies...
(Note: November 21 via Facebook an article was linked to me and by second hand knowledge it was stated that the crowd may have not been supporting the terrorist act, but were in disagreement with the terrorists and/or Western foreign policy. I found some other articles with other views and this is a questionable position. Some may have been making noises for other reasons but this is still disrespectful. And that is only some, please see comments section).
As noted in a recent post on my other blog, even in a state of War, I view killing civilians and non-combatants as immoral and unethical.
As well, even though I have a Biblical Christian worldview and not a secular one, I strongly support the Western objective (Romans 13) to protect itself, its nations, as in maintaining law and order.
As well, I of course do not believe in the Islamic God, which to me is a cultural creation hundreds of years after Christianity and in disagreement with central Christian theology, such as the Nature of God, The Trinity, The Deity of Christ, The Atonement of Christ and Salvation By Grace through Faith Alone. That being unto good works (Ephesians 2) and not in any way, by good works.
The events at the match also makes me ponder...
I can accept that many Western Muslims do not support radical Islam and terrorism.
However, what about the Turkish population?
A member of NATO.
Should the European Union (for which I am an overseas citizen) allow Turkish membership?
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| Over Turkey: Travel+Leisure/Facebook |
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ReplyDeleteYesterday morning I got a call from someone (with a heavy, unclear accent!) trying to impersonate a CRA agent, and claiming that I was facing a lawsuit against me, and ought to find a criminal lawyer to represent me. I knew it was a scam, because I asked why they didn't first contact me by regular mail about this issue, and the guy claimed a letter was sent in June, but I've been on the phone with real CRA agents in September (regarding my tax refund) and no mention was made of any lawsuit to me then. Another thing that made me suspicious right from the start was the prominence of background noise, which is typical of call centres (whether telemarketers or fraudsters). The number that called me was 1-613-900-1731. Don't get taken in by these fraudsters.
I had to renew my BC Gov. Security License. I informed them I have lost weight and needed a new photo from the one years ago, now outdated. I thought it was a long shot but I sent them one of my web cam photos, which they surprisingly accepted...with alterations.
ReplyDeleteSo, I will use this official Gov. pic as the profile pic here...
Maybe they looked at the two photos and thought, yea this guy has lost weight, we had better use the one he sent? Applause to my MD...
“Home, I learned, can be anywhere you make it. Home is also the place to which you come back again and again.”
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Are you storing a valuable comic under your bed?
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ReplyDeleteif you can see the problem in everybody's eyes, you truly have a gift.
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Samuel Goldwyn quotes
I have a new philosophy. I'm only going to dread one day at a time.
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ReplyDeleteJohn, I saw your second comment arrive via email but you deleted it perhaps as it is not here. In my Satire post I explain my view...Further, regardless of views, whether right or left and degrees, there is obviously a West-ISIS and related war of types that needs to be won by the West.
The church established All Saints Day on November 1. When Lord Capulet enters he is first of all very sympathetic and understanding about Juliet's state, thinking that she is crying for Tybalt.
ReplyDeleteThe general rule for every fight is that Fear is your best friend.
“Temperament does not predestine one man to sanctity and another to reprobation. All temperaments can serve as the material for ruin or for salvation…It does not matter how poor or how difficult a temperament we may be endowed with. If we make good use of what we have, if we make it serve our good desires, we can do better than another who merely serves his temperament instead of making it serve him.”
ReplyDelete-Thomas Merton, Thoughts in Solitude
Keep Up Your End of the Conversation
ReplyDelete“Psalm 119 is where I go to learn utter and utterly appropriate honesty. Here I learn how to open my heart about what matters, to the person I most trust. I plainly affirm what I most deeply love. I’m candid about my deepest ongoing struggles. I express pure delight. I lay the sufferings and uncertainties I face on the table. I cry out in need, and shout for joy. I say what I want, and want what I say. I hear how to be forthright— without any stain of self-righteousness. I hear how to be weak—without any stain of self-pity. I learn how true honesty talks with God: fresh, personal, direct. Never formulaic, abstract, vague. I hear firsthand how Truth and honesty meet and talk it over.”
That was from David Powlison’s meditation on Psalm 119, his picture of what life with God is really like, open and honest, trusting and direct. Within that life, our part is to “keep up your end of the conversation.” Here’s the whole text of that wisdom:http://www.ccef.org/sites/default/files/pdf/bethlehembaptist/2204002.pdf
I’m helped and encouraged by that, so much. Instead of mostly coming to the Lord when something goes wrong, I can do that all of the time, in unspectacular daily life. I have the Lord’s attention nonstop! I can just tell him how much I don’t understand or how weak I feel, and how he understands it all and is strong to save, and he stays with me.
ReplyDeleteI’ve never had that many close friends, and as we got closer they moved away or died. In an emergency I’m with people who work together in the Cause of the moment, and then it’s over. When I’m with people I’m slow to ask, “so what’s been happening in your life?” When I do, when I remember it’s smart to say that, then it’s surprising how close we can be, but that’s not often. I want it to be that way all the time. Maybe my desire for that comes partly from being self-centered, but it’s more than that.
ReplyDeleteSince you’re lonely, disconnected, out of touch, in a world where no one cares etc., how Jesus makes the difference? Compare that with the traditional way, of taking seriously the holiness of God and how thoroughly and consistently you break his commandments, then facing the reality that the only future you have is everlasting judgment? Especially if you die tonight? What would knowing Jesus in ordinary, humdrum life be like?
ReplyDeleteI enjoy Jane Austen, the movies more than the books. Just imagine a magic world like that, with a few rich nobles surrounded by footmen whose main task is to stand up straight against the wall while the important people dance the night away. The cute youngest son won’t inherit but instead gets the “living” as local pastor. Everyone goes to church but it’s not important, except for weddings. Jane was a minister’s daughter herself so she must have known what it was like. Not only in that ordinary life did no one take the Lord seriously, but also nothing else either.
ReplyDeleteCould we start telling each other about everything in our ordinary lives, including how the Lord is always there, listening and reminding? Warming up for the not-yet-believers? Modeling the Lord’s deep interest in their lives with our own concern? Learning that with the Lord there nothing is ordinary anyway?
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ReplyDeleteThat's the way it was in the Garden, with Adam and the Lord having all those chats in the cool of the evening. Or maybe Moses on the mountain, hiding his face in the cleft in the rock so he could keep on staying in the Presence? Or Jesus staying with his disciples, just being with them when all they can think about is, am I the one who will be #2 in the Kingdom? (He does say, how long do I have to put up with you, and he prays all night, but tomorrow he’s there again). Or Peter the Rock, the Traitor when the servant girl challenges him—when Jesus asks him just, do you love me?, and gets the answer, you know I do.
David, is saying “you know I love you” enough for us to keep up our end of the conversation? I believe it is, no matter what we say before. Let’s tell each other and the world all about that.
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ReplyDeleteJulian Skidmore Unless they weren't doing what you thought they were. According to this blog by a Turkish guy, they always chant that victims of terrorism are martyrs & boo the terrorists. It's hard not to impose our cultural perspective though.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/.../an-explanation-for-why.../
Link
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ReplyDeleteRuss Murray 'Let it be clear: In Turkey (especially at football matches) a one minute silence is always used to chant for those who died in terrorist attacks.' That may explain some of the chanting, thanks Julian, but the "Allahu Akbar," chants have me think that not all the responses were favourable. Also, it is presumptuous to assume that those in Turkey at the match would all not know of how their reactions would be taken by those in the West, as Turkey is at least somewhat culturally Western.
Russ Murray But, reading the articles, I am glad I took a measured and not overly aggressive approach on here and my Satire post.
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ReplyDeleteRuss Murray http://screamer.deadspin.com/why-did-turkish-soccer-fans...
Another view
Cited
'The impossible thing here is in trying to surmise the intentions of a limited number of people behaving in culturally specific, potentially ambiguous ways. It’s practically impossible to fully explain what happened without speaking to the booers and chanters themselves—and if we could, each would likely offer differing motivations.
And so we’re left with more questions than answers. Worst-case scenario, some of those fans in Istanbul cruelly displayed their sympathies for ISIS’s aims. Best-case scenario, some of them were just impatient assholes. In the middle lie those upset that the world doesn’t care as much about Turkey’s own terrorist attacks as it does about the West’s. In the end, that some soccer fans are major dicks isn’t all that shocking a revelation.'
Why Did Turkish Soccer Fans Boo During A Moment Of Silence For The Paris Attacks?
SCREAMER.DEADSPIN.COM|BY BILLY HAISLEY
Russ Murray http://www.independent.co.uk/.../turkey-fans-boo-minutes...
ReplyDeleteCited
'Turkish manager Fatih Terim suggested after the game that fans at the Basaksehir Fatih Terim Stadium should have been more respectful.
"Our fans should have behaved during the national anthems and during the one minute silence," Terim is quoted as saying after the 0-0 draw.
"Greece is our neighbour. Today is world neighbours day, but our fans didn't behave like neighbours in this match."
However, comments on social media sites have suggested that the boos were not to disrespect those who had died in the attacks - but more to do with the hypocrisy of the Western world.'
Turkish fans didn't boo Paris victims, claim social media commentators
INDEPENDENT.CO.UK
Russ Murray Cont
ReplyDeleteCited
'Abs Pangader Actually, they're chanting "Sehitler olmez, vatan bolunmez." Which means "Martyrs never die, the nation won't be divided." This is a common slogan thrown in remembrance of Turkish soldiers who fell victim to terrorism. In Turkey, there is rarely a minute of silence that isn't interrupted by this chant. Whether its a minute of silence for a Turkish catastrophe, or something else that happened globally, this always happens.
Mert Kılıçsoy its was response of injustice,they didnt boo minute's silence for paris attack victims.the millions of ppl dying in turkey couse of terrorist attacks where were you when more than 100 people killed in ankara ?
Mohamed El-Hami They were upset because there were mass killing by ISIL and Kurdish army and lots of deaths in turkey and no country or football team or fans in Europe stood a silence minute for their victims.'
Russ Murray All in all, they should have kept quiet<IMHO...
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ReplyDeleteJulian Skidmore Thanks Russ, though perhaps also when they're saying 'God is the Greatest', it doesn't mean they're approving of the attacks either. After all, we're called to praise God even in adversity.
I did not dogmatically attach motives in my satire post, but I think the 'Turkies' header fits. I realized then and now I cannot exhaustively know their motives, but there are red flags as even the Turkish football mgr was critical.Cheers, Juilan. As well, the cheers could mean some approve the attacks or were not being respectful of the silence.
ReplyDeleteBased on evidence and deductoon I stand by what I wrote here and the satire blog and acknowledge in agreement we as Christians should not backlash against all Muslims or Islam and I acknowledged related Western problems in my post while at the same time acknowledging the obvious problem of Islamic extremism. I also write against various extremes within Christianity.
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